Twitchy FM

[fjacobsen]

Not sure if it´s a bug...

 

In a dogfight with a P-51D the BF-109 feels very twitchy.

It seems to relate to the slats "snapping in and out, but I´m not sure, wheteher thats the case or it´s accelerated stalls.

 

Compared with the P-51D and FW-190 D9, I feel it´s much harder to maneuvre smoothly.

 

FinnJ

[USARStarkey]

I think it is correct. It exhibits the same behavior in BOS, and ive seen people describe things like what your describing in ww2 tests.

[Kwiatek]

Strange it should be more forgive and smooth then 190 or P-51 cause slats help a lot here.

 

Mark Hanna report about 109 handling ( also at slow speed with slats open):

 

The roll rate is very good and very positive below about 250 mph. This is particularly true of the Charles Church's Collection clipped wing aircraft. Our round tipped aeroplane is slightly less nice to feel. With the speed further back the roll rate remains good, particularly with a bit of help from the rudder. Above 250 mph however the roll starts to heavy up and up to 300 or so is very similar to a P-51. After that it's all getting pretty solid and you need two hands on the stick for any meaningfull roll rates. Another peculiarity is that when you have been in a hard turn with the slats deployed, and then you roll rapidly one way and stop, there is a strange sensation for a second of so of a kind of dead area over the ailerons - almost as if they are not connected ! Just when you are starting to get worried they work again !

 

 

Pitch is also delighful at 250 mph and below. It feels very positve and the amount of effort on the control column needed to produce the relevant nose movement seems exactly right to me. As CL max is reached the leading edge slats deploy - together if the ball is in the middle, slightly asymmetrically if you have any slip on. The aircraft delights in being pulled into hard manuevering turns at these slower speeds. As the slats pop out you feel a slight "notching" on the stick and you can pull more until the whole airframe is buffeting quite hard. A little more and you will drop a wing, but you have to be crass to do it unintentionally. Pitch tends to heavy up above 250 mph but it is still easily manageable up to 300 mph and the aircraft is perfectly happy carrying out low-level looping maneuvers from 300 mph and below. Above 300 mph one peculiarity is a slight nose down trim change as you accelerate. This means that running in for an airshow above 300 mph the aeroplane has a slight tucking in sensation - a sort of desire to get down to ground level ! This is easily held on the stick or can be trimmed out but is slightly surprising initially. Maneuvering above 300, two hands can be required for more aggressive performance. EIther that or get on the trimmer to help you. Despite this heavying up it is still quite easy to get at 5G's at these speeds.

 

 

The rudder is effective and if medium feel up to 300. It becomes heavier above this speed but regardless the lack of rudder trim is not a problem for the type of operations we carry out with the aeroplane. Initial acceleration is rapid, particularly with nose down, up to about 320 mph. After that the '109 starts to become a little reluctant and you have to be fairly determined to get over 350-360 mph.

 

 

So how does the aeroplane compare with other contemporary fighters ? First, let me say that all my comments are based on operation below 10,000 feet and at power settings not exceeding +12 (54") and 2700 rpm. I like it as an aeroplane, and with familiarity I think it will give most of the allied fighters I have flown a hard time, particularly in a close, hard turning, slow speed dog-fight. It will definitely out-maneuver a P-51 in this type of flight, the roll rate and slow speed characteristics being much better. The Spitfire on the other hand is more of a problem for the '109 and I feel it is a superior close in fighter. Having said that the aircraft are sufficiently closely matched that pilot abilty would probably be the deciding factor. At higher speeds the P-51 is definitely superior, and provided the Mustang kept his energy up and refused to dogfight he would be relatively safe against the '109. Other factors affecting the '109 as a combat plane include the small cramped cockpit. This is quite a tiring working environment, although the view out (in flight) is better than you might expect; the profuseion of canopy struts is not particularly a problem.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Kwiatek

[NineLine]

You should post a track and/or a better description of what is going on, cant tell if its just being new to this aircraft or something that really is an issue.

[fjacobsen]

While I won´t claim that it is a bug, I still find the FW-190 D9 and the P-51D more smooth and stable at hard maneuvering.

I don´t feel the same twitchyness flying them compared to the BF-109.

 

Here is a track:

Bf109_vs_P51D.trk

 

 

I know that some of the "twitchyness" stems from accelerated stalls, which is Ok.

But I have my doubts that the BF-109 really was that hard to fly.

 

FinnJ

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

dont know, my little experience so far with it tells me that its a lovely bird to fly when its about its general behaviour in the air.

[otto]

The slow speed fm is a little Twitchy imho .

 

After minute 1:50.

Fm-111.trk

Edited December 3, 2014 by otto

[ZaltysZ]

I always had impression (from pilot memoirs, tests and etc.) that BF109 was easy to handle at low speeds (i.e. forgiving), but was crappy gunnery platform at the same time (somewhat wobbly). Only higher speeds stiffened it enough and made easier to keep sights on target.

 

I decided to skip open beta and wait for release version update, as it usually doesn't take too long to arrive after open beta, so I still haven't tried K4, but are you guys experiencing twitchy FM through "dancing" sight at lower speeds? If so, I think it should be expected.

[otto]

I think it is correct. It exhibits the same behavior in BOS, and ive seen people describe things like what your describing in ww2 tests.

 

The problem with the Bos Fm was mostly the rudder. The dcs-109 has a much more precise rudder.

The thing is in DCS the 109 stall is just weird . But it might be just me.

[fjacobsen]

The problem with the Bos Fm was mostly the rudder. The dcs-109 has a much more precise rudder.

The thing is in DCS the 109 stall is just weird . But it might be just me.

 

That's also my impression.

 

Even at 400 km/h it acts weird. I still think that it comes down to the slats, where their impact on lift seems exaggerated or it´s an accelerated stall.

 

The issue is most pronounced in left turns at high power settings, so engine torque seems also to affect the "Issue".

 

Right now I use a curvature of 10% for pitch, roll and yaw, which works fine for the P-51D and FW-190 D9.

 

 

FinnJ

[NineLine]

FM is still a WIP, that said, make sure you guys are giving yourself to get comfortable with the aircraft, its not like anything else, so it will have its own learning curve. I first time in any of the ED aircraft and I always found myself doing something it didnt like :)

[tusler]

I am glad to hear it is WIP i broke both wings smashing into the ground while trying to strafe defenseless helicopters and continued to fly around until I pulled g and snap rolled it into the ground.

It flys good with clipped wings:shocking:

no wings.trk

[NineLine]

Oh gawd, lets not get the missing wing conversation started again, Yo-Yo will be making more vids of paper airplanes :D