Kwiatek

Try to disable FF effect and compare things.

Saitek Evo Force. In other warbirds everything is ok - joystick neutral, stick in cocpit neutral, elevator neutral. Only Spitfire is different.

I got question about elevator control linked with stick in cocpit and joystick position. Without FF joystick i noticed that if joystick is in center (neutral), stick in cocpit is in center ( control zone window) but elevator surface (steer surface) is little in down position ( behind center axis) which casue to fly Spitfire more level. It looks that stick in cocpit in neutral casue elevator surface little down postion. No need full trim nose down to level flight. Much easier to fly without constant push stick to level flight. If i turn ON Force Feedback on stick i noticed that joystick is in neutral ( center), stick in cocpit is little aft postion ( below center in control zone window with axis) and elevator surface is in neutral (center) position. Plane now need full trim nose down to fly more level flight but still required constant push stick - not possible to trim for level flight. Whats is reason of these? In real Spitfire stick in neutral casue elevator in little down position?

Ok thanks for help pointing the problem. I try to find out what is the suorce of these issue. I find some things: - with FF OFF or any other stick without FF , joystick is in the center, stick in cocpit according to game axis window is in center - but looking from outside elevator control in SPitfire is little down position ( below neutralized) which mean that plane with controls in center got elevator little down causing level flight - with FF ON, joystick in center, stick in cocpit according to axis control window is little aft postion - elevator surface is in neutral position - these casue that plane with joystick in center huge nose up momentum. It looks like that flying with stick without FF ( or with FF diseabled ) is much easier casue joystick in center means that you got elevator little down postion and straight flying without huge nose up momentum.

Hmm he got Saitek Evo Force? Casue what others write here with Microsoft FFB2 they experience similar but they just make swap axis and stick back to neutral. In my case swap axis doesnt change anything - still stick in cocpit is little aft - not centered. Other WW2 DCS planes like P-51, K-4 and D-9 are ok for me with FF ON - stick is centered as joystick. Only SPitfire is different.

Well if you fly real plane ( if You fly any) and if You get stick in center neutral postion it mean that Your controls are neutral. These it the point. It should be work the same with our joystick center position - controls neutral. There is no possible to fly correctly in Spit with FF casue You need make not willed full trimm nose down to fly straight which casue much more drag. Then You fly with stick little aft causing nose up momentum compesated by full trim nose down. These is absurd. Without FF You need just only some degree trim nose down to fly straight at the same power settings - much less drag and more controlablity of plane. All these planes P-51, K-4, D-9 etc got more elevator up movement then downside - so all of them got angular movement not OLNY Spitfire IX Ex. P-51 The tail section control surfaces are limited to the following angular movements: elevator: +30°/-20°. K-4 - up - 27 , down - 24 deg All other WW2 planes in DCS got center for stick in cocpit alligned with center ( neutrum) of joystick with FF and without. Only Spitfire got aft position not centered so it is obviously bug.

I understand that elevator travel is not the same up and down. But or it should be the case for all joysticks or for any. IF i disable FF my joystick got the same center postion as stick in cocpit. With FF enabled stick in cocpit is little aft postion when joystick is in center postion - these casue in SPitfire huge nose up moment. IT is nonsense to fly in such way casue you have to trim maximum nose down to fly straight. When You got joystick without FF or disable FF everything is ok. For me it is bug otherwise all joysticks ( with FF or without it) should work in such way that center in joystick is not the same like stick in cocpit. Now to fly correctly in SPitfire i have to DISABLE FORCE FEEDBACK. Swap axis doesnt change situation.

P-51 Force Feedback ON vs SPitfire IX Force Feedback ON - Joystick in neutral position (center)

Well in other DCS WW2 planes it work correctly. With FF ON P-51, D-9 or K-4 got stick ( in cocpit) at center position alligned with joystick - no problem everyhing work as it should. Dunno why in SPitfire joystick is in center position but stick in cocpit is not ( is below center causing nose up). Trim work correctly in Spitfire ( with FF or without it) but it doesn't change stick position in cocpit but only trim flap on elevator surface like it should. There is nonsesne to fly with not centered stick and full trim nose down to fly straight. It is obviously bug which affect only SPitfire MKIX. When FF is disabled stick and joystick is alligned in center position.

Could someone check and report these bug? Casue flying in SPitfire IX with FF actually for me is nonsense.

Thx guys but it doesn't change anything for me. Still stick in cocpit is below center position.

Question for FFB flyuers. With FF effect ON trim work as it should? I found with my Evo Force that with FF ON trim is simulated in cocpit - hat on stick work and stick is moveable but very slowly. Horizontal stabilizer doesnt change postion at all ( external view). When i disable FF effect - trim work as it should - hat on stick is move, stick in cocpit is move quite fast and horizontal stabilizer change postion. Still when i fly with FF ON plane fly much smoother and stabiled then with FF OFF and working trim

I got similar problem but it depend if Force Feedback is ON or OFF. With FF ON trim work only on game stick ( hat is moving and change very slowly stick position ) but horizontal stabilazer doesn't change position at all. With FF OFF trim work as should - game stick and horizontal stabilizer move up and down as it should. Strangly i found that with FF ON F-86 fly much stable for me, keep better energy, less oscilation. Much better plane to fly even without correct trim working. When i disable FF plane fly much worse, less stable, much more energy bleeding, like i was flying different plane even if trim work as should

So it seemed that bug exist not only for my Evo but also for FF Sidewinder2. Tried these solution but it doesnt help for me - still center of stick is atf postion.

I found that with Force Feedback enabled ( Saitek Evo Force) SPitfire MKIX is only plane which got bug with center of stick which is little aft position. These casue nose up tendency which could be dumped only by push stick or full trim nose down which is bad idea. When FF is disabled stick back to center postion and everything is ok. All other WW2 fighter planes ( P-51, 109 and D-9) dont have such issue and both with FF enabled and disabled stick is in center position always. Only SPitfire is affected by these bug which casue big issue with flying FF enabled settings. Here are screenshots with FF enabled and disabled in SPitfire ( joystick is free)

So power on spins are possible and if happend it was not such fast to recovery. It take some time to recovery also need a lot of alt. Thats why it should be dangerous at low alt for all these type of planes ( P-51, Fw 190, even 109 ) Even in light Zlin 526F when you make more then 3 spin turns there is need some time and another few turns to recovery. At low alt it is very dangerous bisnes. Warbirds are really beast surly spin above 1-2 turns should take a lot of time to recovery also power on spins/ dynamical one should be really dangerous at low alt. It is not exacly the case in DCS actually.

Yo-Yo power on spins also flick rolls were quite dangerous on these beast. Flick roll was most forbidden in all these planes. From the same P-51 manual:

You saw videos i posted? There are similar planes which got spin accidentaly and it cost their lives. In manuals of P-51 or P-47 accelerated stall and spin is forbiden. Why? Beacause it is very dangerous. Even simple spin is dangerous at altititude below 10 000 :) In DCS K-4 or Fw 190 D-9 are very easy in stall and spin - there is no problem. Even P-51 which is more prone to spin is quite easy to recovery also if You want force these plane to spin expecially in right side planes behave very strangle - like something want to stop it ( i mean dynamical stall during steep climb right turn and full elevator pull). Even if P-51 got spin it is very easy to recovery. I mean power on spins not power off :) For me DCS is lack of power on spin characteristic in most prop planes.

and some focus on spin in P47

And rest interesting notes Yo-Yo from Your P-47 manual ;)

About some spins in P47 and P-51 - expecially interesting is about high speed spin ( dynamical) and moreover altitutude needed to recovery and spin turns ;)

These is not dynamical stall and spin. Most of these planes make such spins. I got in mind different situations not typical exercise for spin ;) ----- look at videos i posted in spin topic ;) Try to make hard climbing turns with full back stick in Fw 190, 109 K-4 or even P-51. P-51 from all these planes is more prone to spinining but still got some strange behaviour like game engine cant hang some different effects.

If pilot is good he rather woudn't spin accidentally. But if You use some brutes movement of these kind of planes you should expect rather nasty stalls and spins ( flick rolls) which also should take some altitude to recovery ( watch vidoes i posted - even if there were no agressive movements on controls). Im sure that many of WW2 pilots dont even stall or spin casue they dont push the planes to the limits. Some of them tried - like ex. Joachim Marsielie. From my experience with 5000 kg taildragger with 1000 HP radial engine ( Ash 62IR) and big 4 blades prop, big wings ( 18m span and 40 m2 area) it could spin accidentaly which at low alt its mean crash ( there were some accidents where pilots just making climbing turn with water load and get stall and spin or even after drop water bomb when they try to look behind to check how they hit fire target). Of course if pilot is good and feel the plane he shouldn't spin accidentaly but i mean that in DCS You could really make violent controls movement without too much risk of spin at all and even if plane stall recovery is immidietly. Such planes in game are so just too forgiving to me. Other hand i tried F-86 and i think it is much more beliveable then prop fighters. S!

Yo-Yo will all respect for Your work Problem with DCS is that You could really rape 109 or Fw 190 even sometimes P-51 on Your controls where IRL Your plane would be stall and spin like the hell. Such spin in low alt means mostly dead. I tried rellly horiible things expecially in D-9 and K-4 and there is no afraid of such things. These videos which i posted show that real planes could got spin even without violenty and brutal controls actions - just only some pilot errors or engine failure ( not brutal actions at all). Thats why DCS prop planes fell for me as a real pilot that are flying too easy and too forgiving way in many sitautions where IRL probably most of such actions would be mean deadly spin ( at low alt).

Problem with DCS is that You could really rape 109 or Fw 190 even sometimes P-51 on Your controls where IRL Your plane would be stall and spin like the hell. Such spin in low alt means mostly dead. I tried rellly horiible things expecially in D-9 and K-4 and there is no afraid of such things. These videos which i posted show that real planes could got spin even without violenty and brutal controls actions - just only some pilot errors ( not brutal actions at all). Thats why DCS prop planes fell for me as a real pilot that are flying too easy and too forgiving way in many sitautions where IRL probably most of such actions would be mean deadly spin ( at low alt).