Mainstay Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Hi Delta. Let me first begin with a simple explanation why this is so hard for you. 1 : You dont have the right gear to experience the full product like it should. ( Stick in combination with rudder peddals). 2 : Once you have the gear you have to read what she's all about. Strong points, weakpoints and the reasons why she's trying to kill you everytime you start jerking all her gentle spots all over the place when you mount her. 3 : Once you make her feel special by spending time getting to know her. You take her out on a date. Slowly roll and make short sessions on the ground just to feel the engine and control services. 4 : After that you should be ready for the big date. 5 : Treat her like a princess and she's an Angel. Abuse her and she's your biggest enemy. P.S. It took me hours and hours just to get all the little moments right. Im still not at the point where i can say im a pro. More hours will be made...
golani79 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 OK, I have tried and tried and tried. I have the auto rudder and takeoff assistance off. Prop automation on. Full nose down trim. Some right rudder. Some nose down and right aileron. RPM not exceeding 2500. 20 degrees flaps to no flaps. The aircraft tracks fairly nicely down the runway. The tail comes up. Wheels leave the ground. AIRCRAFT FLIPS INVERTED IN LESS THAN A SECOND AND CRASHES. If you are takingoff with flaps then try to takeoff without flaps. Flipping over happens to me if I´m not fast enough at TO and the 109 tends to pull up pretty fast with the use of flaps. And you could also try to go full power at takeoff - just give full right rudder before you slam the throttle forwared and then be gentle with the rudder. >> DCS liveries by golani79 <<
golani79 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 How do I do this? What exactly? Flaps? Just retract the flaps all the way (LCTRL+F) and for the power just push the throttle forward all the way. Also make sure your tailwheel is locked (RSHIFT + T for toggle) - I suggest you roll for a few meters after locking it so everything is aligned nicely. >> DCS liveries by golani79 <<
El Hadji Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 I had the same problems as OP but I am currently taking off without pedals (my Crosswinds haven't arrived yet). This is how I do it (auto rudder and assistance OFF): Align the plane on the runway and make sure prop pitch is set to 12 o clock and that tailwheel is locked. Set flaps to approx 10%. Pull the stick to your crotch and apply full right rudder. Then set throttle to 1.35 ATA/2400 rpm FAST. Note that I do NOT use MW-50, full throttle or trim. Hold the stick back during acceleration and keep the plane in a straight line with rudder input. When you hear the sound from the wheels change gently center the stick and the plane will lift itself off the ground. As soon as wheels leave the ground move stick forward to compensate for nose up and be prepared to counter left roll. As soon as you are airborne set prop pitch to automatic and retract gear and flaps. This method works very well for me with all necessary controls mapped to joystick and throttle so I can maintain full control during the takeoff without having to use the keyboard. Of course everything will be easier when my pedals arrive but it is do-able without them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] My computer specs below: CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K@4.2GHz | CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100 | GPU: MSI Nvidia GTX 680 2GB Lightning 2GB VRAM @1.3GHz | RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 1600 | SSD 1: Corsair Force 3 120GB (SATA 6) | SSD 2: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB (SATA 6) | Hybrid disc: Seagate Momentus Hybrid 500/4GB (SATA 3) | Keyboard: QPAD MK-85 | Mouse: QPAD 5K LE | TrackIR 5 + Track Clip Pro | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | MFG Crosswind | OS: Win7/64
PhoenixBvo Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 One very important point not yet mentioned about taking off in the Bf 109 (holds for the Fw 190 as well): You have to be on top of the controls. Meaning: your inputs have to be rapid AND accurate. Technically: high gain control. Don't let the plane do its thing. You decide where you want it to go and any sign of deviation has to be countered immediately and without overshoot. This is very hard and requires utmost concentration and tension IF you don't know the plane's behavior. Once you get a feeling for how she responds, anticipation becomes the focus of your control strategy and with that you won't need as much concentration and tension to take off safely. Technically: you develop a mental reference model and use feedforward control in combination with reduced feedback gain. This, in addition to the points made by other posters of course. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
NeilWillis Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) I have no problem taking off with the prop pitch set to auto. You should not need to go to manual as the pitch is set to fully fine (12.30) on takeoff anyway, and it is just one less thing to worry about. If you use manual pitch, shortly after takeoff the engine will seize if you forget to switch back to automatic control within a few seconds of getting airborne. The key with getting safely into the air is to hold her onto the runway until you have plenty of airspeed, then watch for the nose up, and left wing down - counter them with prompt, careful control inputs and she soon realises who's the boss. I use 10 degrees of flap when taking off, it lowers the stall speed, and although it makes the tail heavy currently, I suspect this is something that will change because flaps should make the Kurfurst nose heavy, and that should counter the nose up effect. Is that correct Yo-Yo? Edited December 11, 2014 by NeilWillis
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Yes, pretty much the same here. The only occasion where manual control of the prop pitch does clearly help is for landing, since at it's fine setting it really acts as a powerful airbrake :-) As a glider pilot IRL, this is the closest I can get to my glider airbrakes ( spoilers :) ), so I use it all of the time... Reading a few RW flight tests it is mentioned how difficult the 109s were to bleed off their speed during approach. I also use forward slips to lose altitude without gaining speed... Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
golani79 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Reading a few RW flight tests it is mentioned how difficult the 109s were to bleed off their speed during approach. I also use forward slips to lose altitude without gaining speed... If I need to bleed speed faster I also open the radiator :D >> DCS liveries by golani79 <<
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 If I need to bleed speed faster I also open the radiator :D Yes! Also do that! :-) Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
NeilWillis Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Not tried the radiator trick, but definitely agree with the slipping. Great way to lose altitude without increasing speed. Switching pitch to manual is part of my landing preparations too.
Roadrunner Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 my advice beside practice: join a teamspeak and have someone show you how to take off, and then try yourself with his/her help. what timezone are you in? all that was said from the others is true, but nothing will help without the perfect timing, as said above also ;) As a glider pilot IRL..... I also use forward slips to lose altitude without gaining speed... nice, reminds me of my first slip in a K-7 glider about 20 years back.... my instructor, old 109 pilot he was, "rescued" my bad landing approach with a slip, and after a hard landing he just walked away, still a very well working way to tell you that you screwed up :D funny though, back then it was all about flying that glider, today i would bomb him with questions, wondering if he is still there.... regards, RR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "There's nothing to be gained by second guessing yourself. You can't remake the past, so look ahead... or risk being left behind." Noli Timere Messorem "No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always been there first, and is waiting for it." Terry Pratchett
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 yes i also increase manual prop pitch for landing.this with full flaps and throttle on idel, and the 109 becomes slow enough really quickly.
Delta6Actual76 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Here is a super dumb question. The Auto pitch switch: I'm assuming manual is down and auto is up? It's not marked one way or the other. Another thing, how do I know how many degrees the flaps are set at? Is there some sort of visual marker? By the way, I appreciate all of the advice I have received from everyone. I'm not giving up! Edited December 13, 2014 by Delta6Actual76
Delta6Actual76 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 Saints be praised, I did it! I took off (poorly at best) and landed (also not so good) and taxied to the ramp and shut down in mostly one piece. Also played with the guns, strafed my own base and blew up a fire truck. I would like all of you to see, so how do I post a video. I saved this mission.
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Also played with the guns, strafed my own base and blew up a fire truck. I would like all of you to see, so how do I post a video. I saved this mission. Please just DON'T !!!! You're going to be presented to Court Martial :) Now, regarding the videos, I am yet to try Nvidia's Shadow Play. Have it installed, but never used it... In the past I used to do that with FRAPS... You can always attach the track through the Manage Attachments bellow the message editor window... Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Splat Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Thanks to everyone in this thread who suggested setting prop pitch to 12:00 on take-off. I was starting to get frustrated with getting the Bf 109 into the air (never had problems with the Dora), but for some reason increasing the prop pitch a touch made all the difference! (Also, setting minimum prop pitch on the landing approach really helps to slow the 109 down, so thank you for that suggestion as well.) MSI P67A-GD55 | Intel i5 2500 @ 3.3GHz | MSI Twin Frozr GTX 760 OC 4GB GDDR5 | G.SKILL Sniper 16GB DDR3 @ 1333MHz | Corsair TX750 PSU | Corsair Force GT 90GB SSD | WD Black 640GB + 1TB HDDs | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit DCS A-10C Warthog | DCS Bf 109 K-4 Kurfürst | DCS Fw 190 D-9 Dora | DCS Ka-50 Black Shark 2 | DCS P-51D Mustang | Flaming Cliffs 3
golani79 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Another thing, how do I know how many degrees the flaps are set at? Is there some sort of visual marker? There are markings on the flaps 30 20 10 5 >> DCS liveries by golani79 <<
Delta6Actual76 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Posted December 15, 2014 @jcomm, I shot up a Russian base with a German airplane. I doubt I'll face a court-martial, if anything I'll be presented the Iron Cross!! Also I'll look into posting that video.
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 @Delta: looking fwd to watch that video / track ;-) Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
9.JG52 Ziegler Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Just an FYI for those who haven't noticed but the rad map on the GUI is wrong. Open closes the rad and closed opens it. Could be a reason for some peoples seized engines? It's been reported in the bugs thread. You can have it on auto rad, close it and see the temps drop dramatically and the reverse when opening. They just got the GUI map commands reversed.
GumidekCZ Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 Finally the recipe for my takeoffs founded. Tune rudder axis with bigger curvature (25-30), for whole runway ride try to KEEP STEERING NEEDLE IN CENTRE - GENTLE RUDDER CORRECTION BUT IMMEDIATE, WHEN CORRECTION APPLIED LATE YOU WILL END UP BURIED IN GROUND. Today I did succesfully 7 from total 10 takeoffs. Same thing can be applied for Dora.
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