Styx - stealth infiltration fantasy game

[StandingCow]

So, I love the character.... but the controls for a stealth game, which requires precision... are not very good.

[Bucic]

So, I love the character.... but the controls for a stealth game, which requires precision... are not very good.

In what situation exactly? Because there's pretty much only one problem with the controls and it's the imprecise snapping to a nearby ledge while climbing up or down sometimes. Which isn't even strictly related to controls.

[Yurgon]

I finally started the game. I'm still in the first mission (part 3/3) and exploring everything.

 

So far the game looks really good, the Styx character is awesome and I had very few problems with the controls. All in all, the controls are really great and smooth.

 

The only problem I had (already described in this thread IIRC) is that Styx tends to jump from one ledge to another instead of just dropping to the floor, as I intend. I may have to read some kind of tutorial because I'm probably just doing it wrong.

 

In any case, looks like a really fun game so far. :thumbup:

 

* it's called 'Goblin'. While many people play it for disabled melee (it's replaced by death scenes upon detection) I chose it for increased awareness of AI which I feel underperforms >badly< on 'Normal'.

 

I took the leap of faith and started on Goblin difficulty. During the first mission, that feels like a very good decision. Even so, AI isn't the smartest, but it feels as if at this difficulty, the game is very well balanced.

 

Curious to see how the upcoming levels will play out. :)

[Yurgon]

I just finished the game, and my verdict is "mixed".

 

First, what I like about Styx:

• The main character is awesome
  
• The game runs perfectly smooth
  
• Pretty cool story twists
  
• Art-style is great (not amazing, but very cool)
  
• Music (could be more varied, but it's good)
  
• Controls (PC with Mouse + Keyboard here) are pretty good
  
• Reusing several levels throughout the game so that there's increasing familiarity
  
• Free save and load capability
  

 

The main aspect I don't like about Styx is that the game doesn't solve the AI problem, and that's been an immersion killer ever since "Thief: The Dark Project" and probably before. So if you drop a corpse on some guards, they go like "He's got himself killed!" and go to a high awareness-level for a certain amount of time, maybe 30 seconds or so. However, if Styx pushes a chair or a bucket or a cup and makes a bit of noise, every guard in the vicinity will raise their awareness-level by, like, two more levels, like "I HEARD SOMETHING! WHAT WAS THAT?"

 

If I kill every guard in an area except one, he doesn't get even a tiny bit suspicious that he's all alone.

 

Some levels try to address that by saying "Character XYZ must not be tipped off, you are not allowed to kill anyone!" or the game insta-fails and you're required to reload. Sorry, lamest [expletive] excuse ever.

 

AFAICT "Styx" doesn't even try to find a new approach to the AI problem, instead it just accepts that that's the way to do hide-and-sneak games and it sticks with it. One could call it old-school but I think it's a really lazy approach. That's like creating a Science Fiction universe where everything is well explained except that they have artificial gravity that even works when primary and secondary life support systems have failed - it's okay-ish but lazy.

 

So, here's what I don't like about Styx:

• Terribly basic AI
  
• AI often depends on the player's position, making the scripting/trigger zones even more obvious
  
• AI can spot a perfectly concealed Styx from a few meters away but ignores him at maybe 30 meters, where Styx can jump and run and shout without being noticed
  
• AI reaction to Styx seems radically different from AI reaction to Styx' clones ("We killed that thing, let's get back to our posts" vs. "I think I saw something! Let's investigate.")
  
• Overall tubular level design, pretending an open world that doesn't exist
  
• Choke points where even the illusion of an open world doesn't mean a thing
  
• Why the heck are there guards deep down in all those levels?
  
• Next-to-unachievable side-goals like "Collect all the coins"
  
• So you've skilled "Stealth"? Screw it, the finale requires "Kill" skills!
  
• Overall plausibility of world and levels isn't convincing IMO
  
• Occasional controls problems where "Drop down" gets translated to "Climb up"
  

 

All in all, it's a good game IMO, but I think it's too long and too repetitive. According to Steam it took me 48 hours to play through, and while I love a good bang for the buck ratio, the more I played, the more I just wanted to be done with it. Then again I'm victim to my own compulsions and I have to play such games a certain way (if I kill a guard, I have to hide the body, even if it means carrying it to the other end of the level. And if I decide to kill all the guards in a particular area, I may well spend 30 minutes just moving their corpses, and *then* complain that the game takes too long - that's just the way it is with me, and I can't escape it, or I would enjoy such games even less).

 

I like it, I would recommend it to fans of the hide-and-sneak genre, but I think with a different approach it could have been not just "quite okay" but indeed "extraordinary", so most of all I see a lot of wasted/unrealized potential here.

[WildBillKelsoe]

looks like a knock off Assassins Creed...

[Bucic]

I agree with most of your points, Yurgon. Especially the AI. Hence the 'conventions'. Indeed, Styx devs obviously didn't even try to make progress in this regard. But then again, AI is a deep well that can swallow your funds and your entire project faster than anything else. It's worth keeping in mind that Cyanide Studios is probably closer to some indie studios than to any of the major studios we know.

 

Game length:

Too long for me as well, but I played on Goblin level. Fortunatelly for me there were the Elves which gave me a really hard time initially but later posed a great gratification as I've cracked what is the best tactic against them. And the good story of course. I also enjoyed back tracking a lot.

 

To be continued...

Edited October 15, 2015 by Bucic

[cichlidfan]

$10.19 on Steam for the next two days.

[Bucic]

@Yurgon

Few gripes I have with your negative points. In general you argue with the fundamentals of Styx, that is it's gameplay convention. Take the "guards don't see Styx 30 m away in the open". It's not realistic and on the brink of ridiculous, but... Imagine if they did. The whole game would fall apart. Same with some other 'AI improvements'. Styx able to throw stones to distract enemies. Damn, if the level layout was retained I'd beat the whole game with small stones.

 

"Overall tubular level design, pretending an open world that doesn't exist

Choke points where even the illusion of an open world doesn't mean a thing"

Nowhere in the media it says it's even a semi-open world game. The only illusion the game devs tried to inflictis 'the castle is huge'. Everything else is you ;) The game features multiple accomplishment paths per level to a limited degree as well as level backtracking.

 

"Next-to-unachievable side-goals like "Collect all the coins""

Ever thougt that those goles are aimed towards a certain brand of players?

 

"Occasional controls problems where "Drop down" gets translated to "Climb up""

Have you watched my vimeo videos on the subject? Have you, additionaly, tried HOLDING the movement key instead of tapping it?

[Yurgon]

In general you argue with the fundamentals of Styx, that is it's gameplay convention. Take the "guards don't see Styx 30 m away in the open". It's not realistic and on the brink of ridiculous, but... Imagine if they did. The whole game would fall apart.

 

Well that's my point. ;)

 

You "warned" about some of these limitations in this very thread and I knew about them before I even bought the game.

 

After I've played it through, I disagree with some of these decisions. I think the game could have been better if they'd taken a bolder, more original approach rather than creating "just" another game that basically works like Thief.

 

"Overall tubular level design, pretending an open world that doesn't exist

Choke points where even the illusion of an open world doesn't mean a thing"

Nowhere in the media it says it's even a semi-open world game. The only illusion the game devs tried to inflictis 'the castle is huge'. Everything else is you ;) The game features multiple accomplishment paths per level to a limited degree as well as level backtracking.

 

Sure that's just my impression, that's why I wrote it down. :smartass:

 

I don't accuse the game of not working as advertised.

 

I disagree with some of the core design decisions, level design being one of them. Once again, this is not particularly bad, but it's nothing new either, so I blame the game for not taking enough bold steps towards new directions.

 

"Next-to-unachievable side-goals like "Collect all the coins""

Ever thougt that those goles are aimed towards a certain brand of players?

 

Of course they are. Once again, I simply disagree with them. It's a cheap method of motivating the player to check out entirely irrelevant parts of the game world.

 

If people like it, great, they get more bang for the buck. I just easily get frustrated because I love to explore. Whether I have a reason or not, I usually wander around games trying to find all rooms, items, quests, secrets and whatnot. That's exactly how I played Styx. But I never got that "coin collection" achievement for a whole set of consecutive levels. That feels like being punished because the game says I should have been even more curious than I already was.

 

"Occasional controls problems where "Drop down" gets translated to "Climb up""

Have you watched my vimeo videos on the subject? Have you, additionaly, tried HOLDING the movement key instead of tapping it?

 

I didn't watch your videos, but I did watch some others.

 

It was a situation where I tried virtually everything and I'm sure the reaction to control input was broken as in "not working as intended", and I'm only sure about one such situation.

 

Most of the time when Styx and I disagreed on his path of movement, it was probably my fault. Then again, I don't intend to spend as much time learning how to precisely control Styx as I usually do with DCS modules. It's a rather casual, easy to get into kind of game and as such the controls should be as simple and as reliable as is Goblinly possible - a goal of which the game reaches maybe 95% IMO, so my gripe is with the remaining 5%.

[Bucic]

NEW STEALTH GAME STYX: SHARDS OF DARKNESS

:cheer3nc: