F-15C Dogfight Frustration!

[borchi_2b]

Real pilots do it with 200 hours of yearly practice, or less. They'll kick your butt and you won't even know what happened, unless you're one of the lucky few.

 

nice one which shows that you have never flown against real combat pilots in a simulation enviroment.

 

As soon we would move in thier REAL enviroment, we are more likely to kill ourselfs before we even reach a dogfight, BUT, since all the years of flamingcliffs and DCS, which are 8 Years by now, I have flown many dogfights against a real german combat pilot who transitioned to eurofighter by now.

Guess what happend. Since we are used to the Sim, we exeed here.

The Ratio was at some point 4:1 for me, and it was very interesting how he started the dogfights after we passed the 3/9 line. What I figured was that Real combat tactics are also only valid in books, cause there is no such thing as a flightbook combat.

 

So please do not assume that a Pilot would kick our butts, just because he is in the favour of flying 130 hours of dogfight in a real f15 or eurofighter per year.

We can fly many many more hours in the Sim and gain way more combat practise in that particular Sim, so I would say, that in many cases, the online Pilots exceed in the Sim, but suffer death by killling themselfs in RL fighters

[borchi_2b]

In which aircraft you can pull 30g?

And knots are simply miles per hour. So with 100 knots you traveling 100 nautical miles per hour.

 

And 3g at 1000 knots (KIAS for instance) aren't much more effective, than 6g at 500 KIAS.

 

Why? You'll have (mostly) a higher turn rate, which means you pull more degrees per second, so you turn faster.

 

 

regards,

Fire

 

LOL, most eagles turn and burn anyways, so well, if you use 6´g with 500kias or not, makes no diffrence in the end.

 

 

In basic as answer for the threat, 10 hours are not enough. Yes it is true that most work is done by the aim120c, BUT, which is a huge BUT, if you have experiancd pilots as opponents, you are pretty much screwed even if you shoot 1000 missiles. They most likely know what to do in nearly every situation, cause they have developed skill, which can only be developed by many hours beating on your craft.

It is also very important what kind of plane the opponent flys.

Although the new SU27 fm is more likely to kill the pilot in this sim, if you face an experianced SU27 pilot, you shoiuld turn and burn, cause WE know how to exceed in fights, by using our plane and what I figured is, that with the new fm you do not even want to get into a dogfight with a su27, which even has the plus of a helmet mounted cueing, which means I can even shoot IR short range if I cannot reach or outreach your turnrates, which is most likely not to happen.

About the aim120c , well there are many ways for your opponent to get rid of the missile.

notching it, flanking it, ditching it, turning 180 etc etc or a combination of many .

I have a wingman and we tested many ways and we figured that a long range shot is not effective at all, as soon you have your tactics for evading the stupied 120c which is the only strength of most eagle pilots in this sim.

But what I can recommend is, look for an online squad and try to practise and understand BVR and BFM. As soon you understand the does and do not, you will see a progress in your combat flying

[FLANKERATOR]

Like many folks, I've watched a lot of dogfights recorded from inside real cockpits and almost every time, it was about a lot of pulling and slow speed maneuvering, I have yet to come across a video showing more advanced BFM in the real thing. Please share if you know some.

 

OF course, there would be exceptions, but generally, it makes sense to a certain extent; RL pilots have to cope with limited training hours, virtual pilots don't. Not surprisingly, a lot of air forces have started doing a lot of simulation training for their pilots, more cost-effective obviously.

 

Also, it seems that a big chunk of your mental and physical strength will go into fighting high G force and fatigue in the real thing, virtual sticks do not deal with anything of the like and can focus 100% on the BFM aspect of the engagement. Lack of fitness would probably kill you before anything else in the real thing.

[OnlyforDCS]

nice one which shows that you have never flown against real combat pilots in a simulation enviroment.

 

As soon we would move in thier REAL enviroment, we are more likely to kill ourselfs before we even reach a dogfight, BUT, since all the years of flamingcliffs and DCS, which are 8 Years by now, I have flown many dogfights against a real german combat pilot who transitioned to eurofighter by now.

Guess what happend. Since we are used to the Sim, we exeed here.

The Ratio was at some point 4:1 for me, and it was very interesting how he started the dogfights after we passed the 3/9 line. What I figured was that Real combat tactics are also only valid in books, cause there is no such thing as a flightbook combat.

 

So please do not assume that a Pilot would kick our butts, just because he is in the favour of flying 130 hours of dogfight in a real f15 or eurofighter per year.

We can fly many many more hours in the Sim and gain way more combat practise in that particular Sim, so I would say, that in many cases, the online Pilots exceed in the Sim, but suffer death by killling themselfs in RL fighters

 

Im not sure, but I think you missed GG's point. Which is that millions of hours of flight time (whether sim or RL) makes little difference after a certain point, or rather that some people have the 'right stuff' and others dont. By 'right stuff' I dont just mean talent, though that plays a part.

[TAW_Blaze]

GG's point was that you can train for eternity, but if you trained the wrong stuff it doesn't matter. And even when you're pointed towards the right things, if you have the wrong attitude, it won't get you far.

[Ironhand]

GG's point was that you can train for eternity' date=' but if you trained the wrong stuff it doesn't matter. And even when you're pointed towards the right things, if you have the wrong attitude, it won't get you far.[/quote']

:) So true. The expression you always hear is: "Practice makes perfect." But, actually, it ought to be: "Perfect practice makes perfect."

[GGTharos]

I think you're being awfully presumptuous.

 

nice one which shows that you have never flown against real combat pilots in a simulation enviroment.

[311Gryphon]

Nullsys, a lot of us struggle. Not that I'm that great at this game and I'm not a real pilot so I may be at a disadvantage (or maybe not) as well. However, this is a game and it isn't uber realistic even when compared to A10C, so don't worry. It is within your grasp and you may not need thousands upon thousands of hours to get to a point where it is enjoyable.

 

The few things that have helped me greatly are:

 

Understanding the radar system and how to manipulate it. Specifically, what the different modes do, how to move my TDC and bug targets, how to switch into TWS mode (I love TWS mode), etc.

 

Understanding how to change PRF between High, Mid, and Interleaved. Also, knowing when to change it to High to pick up targets coming at me sooner. The sooner you see them the better.

 

Understanding the warning radar and when to really worry and when not to.

 

The part that I'm really lacking is good flying. I'm able to get a few kills here and there but some days are worse than others. At times I can get four or five kills without getting shot down and other times I lose track of a single target and suddenly he pops up behind me. So I think we all have good days and bad days. The beautiful part is that if we always have good days then the game is too easy for our skill level and it gets boring. Having some bad days is frustrating but gives us a goal to shoot for.

 

Keep it up!