Realistic SU-25T Payload?

[PMIK]

Hi guys,

 

I've been flying the frogfoot a lot lately and I've tended to arm myself with all laser and tv guided missiles as this allows me to engage armour from outside the range of that nasty AAA and SAMs. However, I feel like I'm cheating a bit.

 

For example I read that the Kedge TV guided is an expensive missile designed to take out ships but I'm using it on tanks. Would the real SU-25T ever use them on armour?

 

Would you guys consider this cheating?

Is it more realistic to just accept the mission payload?

What would you consider a realistic SU-25T payload for a basic CAS mission?

 

Thanks in advance!

[xaoslaad]

You can easily kill AAA with Vikhrs. For SAM's consider a Phantasmagoria pod and Kh-58U's or Kh-25MPU's if they are radar guided. IR SAM's can probably be managed with Vikhrs if you're careful as well.

[Vedexent]

Is it "cheating"?

 

I wouldn't go that far. Is it unrealistic? I think so. You don't use weapons designed to take out ships on a tanks.

 

You have to fit the weapons to the mission: Taking out armor? Two racks of Vikhrs (and maybe some external fuel tanks) are all you need.

 

Going up on a SEAD mission? Now you need anti-radiation missiles.

 

Need to take out infantry units? How about some anti-personal cluster munitions.

 

Is it part of the mission to take out a bunker, building, or bridge? Maybe you need to look at bomb selections.

 

And never forget, you have a pretty heavy cannon on board all the time - for light targets.

 

Are there enemy fighter aircraft in the area? Call for some Su-27s to run CAP for you; Frogfoot is not a fighter. :P

 

Look at the mission, think about what you need, and - for the most part - take the minimum that you need to perform the task, with a bit of a margin for error.

 

I see many people on multiplayer servers loading up everything they can, and never using half of it.

 

Not only is it not realistic (in War, you don't waste materials, if you're competent), but unused weight just burns up fuel.

[Vedexent]

IR SAM's can probably be managed with Vikhrs if you're careful as well.

 

Short range IR mobile units, and MANPADs certainly can - but it's much easier with a real wingman.

 

One plane "buzzes" an area at high altitude just in firing range, while the other watches, and notes where the SAM launched from.

 

Once you see them, Kh-25ML's are great for picking them off with greater range than most short-range SAMs. I don't see why you couldn't use Vikhrs.

[Boberro]

For typical CAS mission without heavy bunkers, buildings, fortifications real weaponry would be 2x Vikhrs and some rocket pod - example S-8KOM.

 

This way you gain high speed, lighter plane and good performance.

 

Kh-29T is used for very heavy fortifications, buildings, ships. Using it against example Igla is nonsense in terms of realism.

 

But in FC I use whatever I want, so I pack 2xKh-29T, 2xVikhrs, 2xKh-25ML, 2xS-8KOM(or S-25L), ECM pods.

 

However mostly in real life you would pack few Vikhrs, rocket pod and MAYBE Kh-25ML in some situations.

Even not always 16 Vikhrs, as in real life you can pack 3 Vikhr missiles istead of 8.

 

Here you have 4x4 instead 8x8. Wish ED allowed this:

 

[PMIK]

Thanks for the replies! Awesome info!

 

I think I'll try going for a lighter, mission specific loadout and report back.

 

The way I've been playing, I tend to try and shoot off my heavy ordinance first anyway so I can improve my flight performance.

[xaoslaad]

Kh-29T is used for very heavy fortifications, buildings, ships. Using it against example Igla is nonsense in terms of realism.

 

Though I wouldn't discount the massive satisfaction from flinging 700 pounds of explosive at a wee little man with a missile in need of an attitude adjustment!

 

Sometimes the wrong tool for the job is just SO much fun. I mean sure, I could have killed this guy with a steady burst of gun from 3 plus km out, but why not cram a pile of S-13's down his throat instead? :thumbup:

 

Though, yes, I agree, in terms of realism, not so much.

 

Edited January 16, 2015 by xaoslaad

[Belgeode]

Is it "cheating"?

 

I wouldn't go that far. Is it unrealistic? I think so. You don't use weapons designed to take out ships on a tanks.

 

You have to fit the weapons to the mission: Taking out armor? Two racks of Vikhrs (and maybe some external fuel tanks) are all you need.

 

Going up on a SEAD mission? Now you need anti-radiation missiles.

 

Need to take out infantry units? How about some anti-personal cluster munitions.

 

Is it part of the mission to take out a bunker, building, or bridge? Maybe you need to look at bomb selections.

 

And never forget, you have a pretty heavy cannon on board all the time - for light targets.

 

Are there enemy fighter aircraft in the area? Call for some Su-27s to run CAP for you; Frogfoot is not a fighter. :P

 

Look at the mission, think about what you need, and - for the most part - take the minimum that you need to perform the task, with a bit of a margin for error.

 

I see many people on multiplayer servers loading up everything they can, and never using half of it.

 

Not only is it not realistic (in War, you don't waste materials, if you're competent), but unused weight just burns up fuel.

 

I am glad you posted this. I am NOTORIOUS for being one of "those guys" that loads up Vikhrs, 58s, 25s, gun pods, and even R-73s for that just in case action...

Edited January 17, 2015 by Belgeode

[PMIK]

Though, yes, I agree, in terms of realism, not so much.

 

You obviously haven't watched Rambo. That documentary clearly shows that rocket ordinance is frequently used against lone soldiers.

 

Cool video too. You were lucky he missed both his shots but I would've been keen to rain down explosive vengence on him too.

[esb77]

Short range IR mobile units, and MANPADs certainly can - but it's much easier with a real wingman.

 

One plane "buzzes" an area at high altitude just in firing range, while the other watches, and notes where the SAM launched from.

 

Once you see them, Kh-25ML's are great for picking them off with greater range than most short-range SAMs. I don't see why you couldn't use Vikhrs.

 

Did they increase the Kh-25ML's range? It was my favorite missile prior to the missile flight dynamics upgrade, but afterward it had both a shorter range and slower speed than Vikhrs. I eventually decided that they were so inferior that I just stopped carrying them. I'd either leave the pylons empty or put cluster bombs or canisters on in place of the Kh-25s.

 

The only real downside to using Vikhrs is that the frag effect doesn't always get both the MANPAD and the Com unit, and so in some cases it takes two shots to be sure that the SAM is out of commission.

[PMIK]

I've now played a few of the georgian oil war campaign missions. I've armed myself only with vikhrs and Kh-25ML's and I'm having great success and I even run out of targets before missiles! It is also more rewarding as I now feel I'm using a realistic payload. Thanks for the tips!

 

Did they increase the Kh-25ML's range? It was my favorite missile prior to the missile flight dynamics upgrade, but afterward it had both a shorter range and slower speed than Vikhrs. I eventually decided that they were so inferior that I just stopped carrying them. I'd either leave the pylons empty or put cluster bombs or canisters on in place of the Kh-25s.

 

Are you confusing them with the S-25L? The S-25L has shorter range and is slower but the Kh-25ML has a much longer range and is a great little AGM!

[xaoslaad]

You obviously haven't watched Rambo. That documentary clearly shows that rocket ordinance is frequently used against lone soldiers.

 

Cool video too. You were lucky he missed both his shots but I would've been keen to rain down explosive vengence on him too.

It might have been hard to hear as I play with the volume rather low, but there was very judicious use of flares, which is why I guess the missiles flew so wide left and right.

[Dr_Arrow]

Isn't there any way to create a MOD for having only four VIKHRs on a pylon?

[joey45]

Probably.

[Stewart]

Probably not much different than an A10 loaded to the teeth. I see a lot of people using max loads on many aircraft which is unrealistic anyway. In the real A10C manual it says all missions are to use no less than 9600 pounds of fuel that is 87% after that then load your aircraft and see what you can carry and most use 100% fuel from all the videos I have ever saw.

[whitehot]

afaik the kh-29 missiles are designed to engage pretty much everything FEBA and beyond.

 

The TV-guided version (KH-29T) hardly are made to sink ships, unless they are moored in port - no good against moving targets.

 

The laser guided ones are able to sink ships up to 10000 tons.

 

Basically I would't call the Kh-29 series a "CAS" mission weapon, much more a deep strike / interdiction one, since it can drop heavily reinforced buildings, hardened aircraft shelters and so on.

 

For CAS roles, the Kh-25 is pretty much effective like the mavericks on the A-10