Alexander Seil Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I was trying to look up the historical doctrine for using Mig-21s, but all I came across was this fascinating document (Indian use of MiG-21's in 1965 and 1971 wars), http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Aircraft/MiG-21.html Most of the encounters in this amount either to circling close-in dogfights (I'm a n00b when it comes to anything flying, but it doesn't seem like MiG-21's forte), or strafing ground targets. Are there examples of systematic strategies tailored specifically to MiG-21 and successfully used in practice? It's obviously a very fast plane that can get up to very high altitudes, but seems like the way to use it would be in a climbing intercept, as it's so easy to flameout when recovering from a dive.
Hadwell Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Its an interceptor first, fighter second, but the closest comparison I've read about is an older model f16. You're basically right, but its size and thrust/weight ratio make it reasonable in a knife fight vs bigger newer fighters. My youtube channel Remember: the fun is in the fight, not the kill, so say NO! to the AIM-120. System specs:ROG Maximus XI Hero, Intel I9 9900K, 32GB 3200MHz ram, EVGA 1080ti FTW3, Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVME, 27" Samsung SA350 1080p, 27" BenQ GW2765HT 1440p, ASUS ROG PG278Q 1440p G-SYNC Controls: Saitekt rudder pedals,Virpil MongoosT50 throttle, warBRD base, CM2 stick, TrackIR 5+pro clip, WMR VR headset. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
ttaylor0024 Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Close fights. This aircraft loves high AoA. Use the emergency afterburner as well. Although this clip doesn't show a full fight, it does demonstrate the high rate of turn that's possible, and even faster turns are available at slightly slower speeds. 7d8ciL_mYcc
J7G Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) This outlines them. VNAF tactics were modeled very closely on Soviet, with some tactical modifications. Mostly slashing attacks, one or two (unlikely) passes controlled by GCI. I can scan some parts of the book if need be, diagrams and such. I'll drag it out and write up some more tonight. http://www.amazon.com/Clashes-Combat-North-Vietnam-1965-1972/dp/1591145198 Edited February 7, 2015 by J7G
Dirty Rotten Flieger Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 At first I was doing the hard turning, high AOA, slow speed fighting with heat seekers and guns. Mainly because I was totally surprised that the MIg21 could fly well in this way. Lately I have been doing something totally different. I approach the area of interest high and fast and start a shallow dive with zero AOA and full burners. Like a giant supersonic zoom and boom attack. I use radar missiles and whether I get a shot off or not, I blow straight through and climb out with all that speed and E. You can start the dive at 12000m and at the bottom of the dive your doing about 1.6 or at most 1.8 M and then climb all the way back up to 12000m after the attack . I don't know if this is historically accurate but it sure is fun!!
panzerd18 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 From what I recall, the North Vietnamese Air Force used them in hit and run attacks at high speed.
ttaylor0024 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 At first I was doing the hard turning, high AOA, slow speed fighting with heat seekers and guns. Mainly because I was totally surprised that the MIg21 could fly well in this way. Lately I have been doing something totally different. I approach the area of interest high and fast and start a shallow dive with zero AOA and full burners. Like a giant supersonic zoom and boom attack. I use radar missiles and whether I get a shot off or not, I blow straight through and climb out with all that speed and E. You can start the dive at 12000m and at the bottom of the dive your doing about 1.6 or at most 1.8 M and then climb all the way back up to 12000m after the attack . I don't know if this is historically accurate but it sure is fun!! Historically true, but really can't do that against the gen 4 fighters though. They would see you on radar a hundred miles away and launch a few missiles at you and you wouldn't even know it. With the radar only looking 1.5* down, you really can't play around up high.
Dirty Rotten Flieger Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Yeah as you say f15 would love Mig21 to try this attack. I would be shoot down before I ever knew about a launch. I'm doing this against F5 with aim9 and F4 with aim7 and aim9.... The aim7 can still get me but the window for them to get me is quite short because the F4 can't follow me back up to altitude if he is circling on the deck when I attack.
Alexander Seil Posted March 29, 2015 Author Posted March 29, 2015 Historically true, but really can't do that against the gen 4 fighters though. They would see you on radar a hundred miles away and launch a few missiles at you and you wouldn't even know it. With the radar only looking 1.5* down, you really can't play around up high. So, then, stay on the ground, spot them with radar, get underneath and climb?
lunaticfringe Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Playing against anything fourth gen, the MiG-21 should be coordinating in one of two roles: 1. Stooge 2. Killer A couple of MiG-21s at middle altitudes pressing in an area, supported by Flankers on the deck, radars off, (or -29s if close to home) can draw Eagles into a dangerous position, to be finished by the Sukhois. The reverse of this is allowing the Flankers/Fulcrums to draw (because of their being the superior opponent), while the Fishbeds roll in on the deck, radar off, directed by GCI or team comms. This lets the small visibility of the MiG-21 come into play, since their IR shots should be undetected until the point of impact. The point is that the MiG-21 should never get tied down to single engagement, and function in the airspace only on its terms.
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