Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[Dave1944]

Hi, I think I might have posted this in the wrong area so I'm going to try again here.

Sorry if I'm missing the basics but I'm new to this and finding it a bit confusing.

When I launch DCS World from my HTC VIVE system it now only starts in non-vr mode. I feel sure that the answer is something simple as all the other VR progs operate as they should. For a while the Hawk flew in VR, which was mind blowing, however, for some reason it doesn't anymore and only loads in 2D. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Dave

[Vivoune]

Hi, I think I might have posted this in the wrong area so I'm going to try again here.

Sorry if I'm missing the basics but I'm new to this and finding it a bit confusing.

When I launch DCS World from my HTC VIVE system it now only starts in non-vr mode. I feel sure that the answer is something simple as all the other VR progs operate as they should. For a while the Hawk flew in VR, which was mind blowing, however, for some reason it doesn't anymore and only loads in 2D. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Dave

 

I think you have to make sure the "auto detect rift option" is enabled in the sim preferences.

[Dave1944]

Thank you for getting back to me Vivoune but were do I find the sim preferences. ( I'm a bit green I'm afraid)

Dave

[Dave1944]

Hi Vivoune please disregard the last message it's solved.

I had to rename the DCS file in User\Saved Games to Temp which must have forced a reinstall (I think?). All is now fine.

Thanks again.

Dave

[Loz]

Thank you for getting back to me Vivoune but were do I find the sim preferences. ( I'm a bit green I'm afraid)

Dave

Open options in DCS (the gear symbol at the top left of the intro page) and then on the first page at the bottom right is "Autodetect Oculus Rift" Make sure that is "ticked"

[Vivoune]

Hi Vivoune please disregard the last message it's solved.

I had to rename the DCS file in User\Saved Games to Temp which must have forced a reinstall (I think?). All is now fine.

Thanks again.

Dave

 

Glad you have it all working. :)

Enjoy yourself you lucky bird.

[Milopapa]

(ATW) existed before the Rift and is used everywhere, the Vive could use it if they wanted to (some say they're already working on it).

 

Hey Vivoune, do you have any source for this? It would be the best thing that could happen to the Vive if this was true.

[Vivoune]

Hey Vivoune, do you have any source for this? It would be the best thing that could happen to the Vive if this was true.

 

Not anything official sadly. But it wouldn't be surprising.

 

The problem with ATW is that both the driver and the OS needs to support it. Oculus worked with Nvidia/AMD and Microsoft to "change OS GPU scheduling, GPU command processor microcode, and GPU kernel driver design to enable ATW." That's why ATW was enabled just before the OR's launch and only is compatible with a small selection of GPUs.

 

That's also another reason why HTC Vive went with the other more open and compatible reprojection method. Another reason is that ATW doesnt cope well with a standing and moving person (roomscale) although I've read it had been worked on and works better now.

 

All I know is that ASW for the OR is the more convincing solution at this point in time. Between game engine optimisations, low level API, new VR techniques like foveated rendering or simultaneous multi-projection or other techniques and along more powerful GPUs I honestly don't know which approach is the best for the foreseeable future and if Vive will or should be after asynchronous reprojection. Reprojection should only be a safe net for when the FPS drops, not the mandatory technology a game engine is based on if it can't ever achieve 60fps.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Vivoune

[Vivoune]

I just got the Vive today. I can't get it to work with 2.0 though. Nor 1.5.

 

Game is running fine and I have decent fps. But while in the Vive and only in the Vive the viewing around is really stuttering, (not laggy) even in the menu. Only the looking-around is jerky (not the game), as if there was something trying to put the view back centered every half second but couldn't. Other games and sims I've tried works fine in terms of viewing around.

 

Anyone had that?

Edited May 20, 2016 by Vivoune

[Milopapa]

What's your fps? 30 will stutter, 45 should be okay.

Can you record your mirror window and post? I'd be happy to look at it.

[thetinguy]

Is it just me?

 

In any other VR game I don't experience such a loss of readability and grafics quality like with the Vive in DCS. (side note: Immersion bonus on the other hand is way better than in other genres)

 

It's all the text. If you play other VR games you notice their text is far larger compared to DCS. and the games that have tiny text suffer these same issues.

[Hollywood_315]

Having played with the HTC Vive for about two weeks now I can testify that it is a truly awesome piece of gear, well deserved of the praise it gets.

Stand-out features like room scale experience, superb all-aspect tracking, built-in camera, and the excellent controllers seem to put it ahead of the competition at this time.

 

However it looks like for DCS there's work to do to get some improved Vive support in place, specifically in the area of reprojection.

I for one would really appreciate if ED changes the 'auto detect Oculus Rift' label into 'auto detect VR' to signal they take equal support for the HTC HMD as seriously as they should.

[hansangb]

But in the big scheme of things, I can think of 100 things I'd rather ED fix before fixing the label from RIFT to VR. Better HUD support, bigger fonts, use of mouse, just to name a few things.

 

Mind you, I own Vive and Rift and will decide which one to keep for DCS. So this is not coming from a fanboy of either side.

 

Also, DCS worked with Rift *long* before Vive was even announced. I used Rift DK1 with DCS so I give them some slack on the naming.

 

I'm sure it'll change at one point.

[Vivoune]

What's your fps? 30 will stutter, 45 should be okay.

Can you record your mirror window and post? I'd be happy to look at it.

 

Nevermind I got it working. It was an issue with Vsync that wasn't disabled, thanks.

 

The immersion is really phenomenal. For those who'd be interested in yet another impression:

 

-I don't notice any sweet spot after some time, the choice of lense does have a sweet spot but it's so big it's a non-issue for me.

 

-In terms of SDE I concur with the general trend, it's rather refined but definitely there, you easily see it when you go looking for it, start playing and get into the action and it disappears.

 

-The screen is really bright, contrasted and the colors vivid and realistic. When I took the M2000 for a spin, at some point on the ground before closing the cockpit I expected that bright sunny day to warm my face for a few seconds. ugh

 

-Have you guys tried Combined Arms? You should drive a tank around...

 

-The messing with the straps and getting the headset right is a bit annoying, but once you get it right and find the right setup (having the straps rest further back on the head) I find it quite comfy, I've played an hour or two with it and an A40 headset without issues, it's a bit on the heavy side but nothing you can't get used to. It can get hot though but I'm not a sweaty person.

 

-Roomscale, a bit irrelevant for Simming but it really brings VR to a whole new level, it would feel a bit like a car without wheels to have VR without roomscale now that I've tried it.

 

-Resolution is really low, it's definitly not there yet, My wingman at your usual AI distance was a blurry pile of pixels. For most of everything that's happening outside the cockpit it's guesswork more than anything. The lack of resolution never disappears like the SDE does for exemple. I always felt like I badly needed to put on some glasses. For the most part the cockpit is readable and usable though, some aircraft works better than others.

 

-I'm struggling to keep good enough FPS around towns with a 970. As long as I'm not too low near towns it's completely fine, butter smooth @45fps (reprojection), I never hit 90fps at any point.

 

It's annoying because the resolution is really too low for combat flight simming, but the immersion is so great I can't see myself getting back to a screen. I think I'll stick to missions where identifying isn't the focus until hopefully CV2 gets released. I haven't had the chance to try it yet but I reckon it's good enough for racing sims and civilian flight sims.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Vivoune

[average_pilot]

-Have you guys tried Combined Arms? You should drive a tank around...

Try to drive a vehicle along a runway while a jet takes off and look to the side as it overtakes you. It's so awesome with 3D vision that I can only imagine what a blast it must be in VR.

 

Still waiting... and waiting... :cry:

 

Great review, BTW.

[Buznee]

I also have my HTC vive and am excited with it's potential in DCS.

 

Some things I noticed that I am sure are work in progress are:

 

1. Currently the VR version of the main menu in DCS does not have 6 degree tracking, only 3. Adding 6 degree will make VR feel much more natural and allow you to get closer to the menu. When you only do 3 degrees of motion (rotational only), you get sick quite easily.

 

2. Also when you open the ingame menu while you are simming, the menu does not stay in place, it follows your head movement which makes set up of things like controls very difficult, considering that most VR systems do not have a good focus outside of the center field of view. This is due to the limitation in the fresnel lense design. Therefore you are forced to use your eyes to scan for the items which are out of focus instead of your head. Recommend keeping the menu fixed and allow you to rotate your head to look at the various menu pieces. There should also be an option to set the size of the menus to reduce eye fatigue.

 

3. Additionally when using the mouse pointer to click on switches in game the 3d position of the pointer is often times closer to you than the cockpit switch you are trying to activate, making pointer alignment on the switch quite difficult and can cause eye fatigue. My recommendation is to allow the pointer to follow the surfaces of the cockpit panels so that the pointer is at the same distance as the object your eyes are focusing on. This may take some implementation but it will be worlds better.

 

4. The mouse pointer coordinates should also be fixed to the cockpit surfaces rather than the pilot view which will make it much easier to keep the mouse on a particular button or switch while you move your head around. If the mouse pointer goes out of the pilot's field of view a simple arrow on the edge of the view can guide you back to where it is. I think if this coordinate system is an option it can be very popular depending on the player.

 

5. It appears the DCS is working on implementing the tracked controllers into DCS. Right now the hands are backwards and quite large, not sure how eagle dynamics intends to incorporate this feature but we will have to keep our eyes open for updates. My guess is it can be useful for start ups and shutdowns although while flying I plan on using the mouse, hopefully with the above recommended changes.

 

Curious what everyone else thinks of my thoughts for improvements here.

[Milopapa]

1. Currently the VR version of the main menu in DCS does not have 6 degree tracking, only 3. Adding 6 degree will make VR feel much more natural and allow you to get closer to the menu. When you only do 3 degrees of motion (rotational only), you get sick quite easily.

 

I don't think this is a problem. I actually quite like it, that it's not 1:1 mapped to my head (it's not 3DOF, btw), I don't need to worry about looking exactly in the right spot.

 

2. Also when you open the ingame menu while you are simming, the menu does not stay in place, it follows your head movement which makes set up of things like controls very difficult

Couldn't agree more. This should be one of the first thing to be fixed for VR (plus the same thing happening after you quit a mission in the latest 2.0.2 version. I actually downgraded to make this work).

I can't even understand why they chose to do this in the first place when the main menu works well. Same menu, different rendering? :doh:

To that point, the whole control setup is ancient and awkward as hell.:crash:

 

To end on a positive note, I just landed after doing some random stunts in a Mustang over Vegas in a beautiful sunset. Not just looking at it on a 2D screen - I was actually there, thanks to VR! :pilotfly:

[average_pilot]

4. The mouse pointer coordinates should also be fixed to the cockpit surfaces rather than the pilot view which will make it much easier to keep the mouse on a particular button or switch while you move your head around. If the mouse pointer goes out of the pilot's field of view a simple arrow on the edge of the view can guide you back to where it is. I think if this coordinate system is an option it can be very popular depending on the player.

This!! It should have been like that years ago because it makes things a lot easier with trackir, too.

[predator036]

Good afternoon friends, I am new to this forum, for years I've been enjoying virtual reality, I began to enjoy the simulation with the Oculus dk2 and "Flight Simulator".

 

Since I've known the "dcs world", I have not returned to play the "fllight simulator" the dcs I find absolutely fantastic and the simulator with best feelings there.

 

The World Dcs use it with the "htc vive" and is an absolutely amazing experience.

 

I wanted to ask you a question, I am using htc dcs world living with version 1.5 because I understand does not work with version 2.0 dcs nevad.

 

 

But here I am reading some colleagues already use htc vive with the world dcs 2.0 nevada, specifically one of you have flown by las vegas.

 

This is true ???

 

You can use the DCS 2.0 nevada with virtual reality and htc in vr steam ?????

 

I apologize for my bad English.

 

thanks for your answers.

[Vivoune]

Good afternoon friends, I am new to this forum, for years I've been enjoying virtual reality, I began to enjoy the simulation with the Oculus dk2 and "Flight Simulator".

 

Since I've known the "dcs world", I have not returned to play the "fllight simulator" the dcs I find absolutely fantastic and the simulator with best feelings there.

 

The World Dcs use it with the "htc vive" and is an absolutely amazing experience.

 

I wanted to ask you a question, I am using htc dcs world living with version 1.5 because I understand does not work with version 2.0 dcs nevad.

 

 

But here I am reading some colleagues already use htc vive with the world dcs 2.0 nevada, specifically one of you have flown by las vegas.

 

This is true ???

 

You can use the DCS 2.0 nevada with virtual reality and htc in vr steam ?????

 

I apologize for my bad English.

 

thanks for your answers.

 

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

 

Yes you can enjoy DCS World 2.0 with VR. I'm not sure about how it's implemented through SteamVR. But you can just launch the non Steam version like any other game and check the "auto detect oculus rift" option in the option menu. After that the game will automatically run in VR mod when your HMD is connected.

[hansangb]

Good afternoon friends, I am new to this forum, for years I've been enjoying virtual reality, I began to enjoy the simulation with the Oculus dk2 and "Flight Simulator".

 

Since I've known the "dcs world", I have not returned to play the "fllight simulator" the dcs I find absolutely fantastic and the simulator with best feelings there.

 

The World Dcs use it with the "htc vive" and is an absolutely amazing experience.

 

I wanted to ask you a question, I am using htc dcs world living with version 1.5 because I understand does not work with version 2.0 dcs nevad.

 

 

But here I am reading some colleagues already use htc vive with the world dcs 2.0 nevada, specifically one of you have flown by las vegas.

 

This is true ???

 

You can use the DCS 2.0 nevada with virtual reality and htc in vr steam ?????

 

I apologize for my bad English.

 

thanks for your answers.

 

I'm sure I speak much worse in your native language, so no need to apologize!

 

I do *not* use Steam, but I do use Vive with DCS 2.0. And it works fine. Just keep in mind that Nevada (NTTR) is a paid download in 2.0. So it is not free.

[predator036]

Thank you my friend, you mention the fantastic news to me.

 

I use htc with version steam DCS World 1.5, run the icon vr steam first, I get down the menu and I detected the "lighthouse" the lives and Drivers, then I run the icon dcs world and the program I already runs directly on the monitor and the htc at once, this I think is called "mirroring".

 

Please classmate who is running the dcs 2.0 snowfall through steam can vr steps specific information here.

 

If I confirmais that this is possible, formatting the hard drive and do a clean install with 2.0 dcs nevada world.

 

Just think piloting my new Huey h1 along the avenues of Las Vegas and get excited.

 

Thank you very much my friends.

[predator036]

Perfect friend "hansangb", I'm glad to hear this as you tell me, I do not quite care about anything having to pay for the scenario of snow.

 

Everything relating to "dcs world" worth every Euros I paid for it.

 

I'll do a clean install with htc and snow dcs 2.0 and my huey h1 I think the experience will be sublime.

 

Thank you very much for help me.

 

Greetings

[hansangb]

It is a blast to fly the Huey over Vegas. I kept waiting to see if the Bellagio fountains actually work, but I was never patient enough to find out. :)

[predator036]

hahahaah "hansangb" that has been very good, hahaha

 

Please a question, I just installed the whole system again, I read that you install the 2.0 version to fly with htc vive, that do not install the version 2.0.2 because the performance is worse, this is fatal to the RV.

 

I entered the web of dcs world and there download area - dcs world - 2.0 dcs early acess world.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/alpha/

 

It is that correct version 2.0 to download ???

 

as I keep DOWNLOAD me or I upgrade to version 2.0.2 ????

 

so far I've flown with htc vive through steam with version 2.5, the module H1 Huey I have purchased through Steam.

 

I have used two installations of the ten which allows me through its program security measure (starforce) by an "activation key" that facilitates me the installer of steam.

 

I module supports the Huey h1 purchased on the website of steam with 2.0 dcs world ????

 

thank you very much for your great help peers.

 

greetings