WIP! Panel-models for everyone!

[Lars]

Lars I am a bit curious as to why your putting a post AN/ARC 210 up grade Antenna selection panel in your panel selection? When the A-10C in DCS clearly is an A-10C with out the Radio / Antenna upgrades?

There is an easy answer to that Deadman.

I am "designing" my panels using the Dzus standard to get the accurate panel dimension, and for the hole and text placement etc. im using the best pictures and information found on the internet.

I must have been blindfolded and took a fast turn just copying the text from the best picture I found, and did not check this any further.

 

Luckily this will be easy to correct.

 

-Lars

[Lars]

Guys.

 

I am having problem with the Environment panel.

There is just something way off here...

 

Am I one Dzus hight off or is the hight accurate ?

 

-Lars

Edited July 28, 2015 by Lars

[ClayM]

Hi Lars

 

Great work.

 

My opinion on Environment Panel ( which means nothing really ) is one dzus too high. Bottom dzus hole move up one then compress your bottom row of switches so text is fairly close to next row above. Hopefully somebody else can provide better info for you!

 

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to final results.

 

Thanks!

 

Clay

[Lars]

Thanks to Deadman we will all have a more accurat environment panel.

He gave me the information needed for me to find out that my environmentpanel was one Dzus hight to short.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

 

-Lars

[dotChuckles]

Lars, you deserve some serious recognition for this work. Very much appreciated.

 

I have had two aborted attempts now to try and build some panels and this has inspired me to give it another go. Your drawings are going to make that endeavour much more achievable. I salute you.

[JCook]

Thanks Lars for your work and special thanks to Deadman for providing the needed info for accuracy. Much appreciation to you both.

[Lars]

Lars, you deserve some serious recognition for this work. Very much appreciated.

The Environment still need some fine tuning, but the dimensions are 100% and so should the other panels posteded.

 

I have had two aborted attempts now to try and build some panels and this has inspired me to give it another go. Your drawings are going to make that endeavour much more achievable. I salute you.

Thanks for the nice words.

I must say, this would not be posible for me to do without all the information on this forum.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Lars

[Lars]

Getting closer!

[JCook]

Lars

Are you also planning the Main Instrument Panel components - AHCP, Fuel, Landing Gear, Circuit Breakers, etc?

[Lars]

Lars

Are you also planning the Main Instrument Panel components - AHCP, Fuel, Landing Gear, Circuit Breakers, etc?

Yes I am. :)

Im going to build the a10c cockpit for my self and tought I would share the panels with you guys.

[JCook]

Awesome. Thanks.

[Lars]

Missing some panels, details and fine tuning.

 

Have a look guys!

 

Feedback is much appreciated to make the panels as good as possible for "everyone" to enjoy.

 

(The file is stp. and to view it I think http://stpviewer.com/ (not tested) should work)

 

-Lars

ASSEMBLY.rar

[Deadman]

OK so you looking for a critique? your panels look good you have some nice consistency going on.

I expect these are current I have just picked the Emergency panel first

Here are a few glaring items. That would cause builders problems.

 

Dzus hole spacing is off in both horizontal and in the vertical. from the edge of the panel.

holes are approx size for real Dzus, Will you use Dzus connectors or replicas?

Switch mounting holes size is incorrect, no anti torque holes for the switches.

Over all panel length off

No holes for the indicators

Light plate single indicator hole and double indicator hole to small.

Font is incorrect ( I know you know it)

No lay out for back lighting

No lay out for the yellow and NVIS striping.

 

the second panel I took a quick look at is the Antenna select panel

Dzus placement is incorrect

over all length incorrect

Hole lay out for the pre 210 radio is incorrect

hole size for the light plate is incorrect

Switch labeling incorrect ( You know this)

Light plate back nut relief cuts to small

No lay out for back lighting

 

All of this is just little stuff and not a complete list.

 

Your major problem is your over all lay out and lack of any space between the panels.

 

All of your Dzus rails are installed back ward.

 

you don have consistence toggle switch hole sizes.

 

It looks good for a start but it wont function well if your going to use Dzus rail. Or a replica lay out

As it is right now with just a short check your panels would not fit in the consoles.

 

I am sure with a review of some information you can straighten all of this out and more quite easily. Keep up the good work DM

Edited August 1, 2015 by Deadman

[JCook]

locking ring holes for the back plates

 

Lars

 

Locking ring holes should be added so the switches are locking in place. The ring fits into the keyway (notch) of the switch and hole in the back plate. The attached diagram shows the placement for the holes.

 

I believe most of the switches I have been using are of the 15/32" bushing variety.

 

I recommend placing two locking ring holes around the toggle switch hole. Place them 180 degrees apart (top-bottom or left-right) and this will allow builders more options with their switches.

 

For example a switch may be hard to find, but a switch with the same function but different keyway orientation might be available. By having an additional ring hole on the opposite side that switch can be used and locked in place.

 

John

[Lars]

Thank you very much for the good words and your constructive critic of my panels.

 

Im building my panels in Metric, so I guess there will be some small +- in the dimensions.

 

 

Dzus hole spacing is off in both horizontal and in the vertical. from the edge of the panel.

holes are approx size for real Dzus, Will you use Dzus connectors or replicas?

The plan is to use real Dzus connectors for my build.

If I move the Dzus holes from the bottom and one Dzus up It dosent look even close to the real panel, same from top to one Dzus down…

 

Switch mounting holes size is incorrect, no anti torque holes for the switches.

Yes I will fix this. I will adjust the anti torque after the Honeywell data sheet because that’s the switches I am going to use.

I was unsure what hole size to use in the backplate/back of topplate and acryl plate.

Im still unsure. So if you or someone else want to share the accurate size it would be very apriciated.

In the mean while I will use the following dimensions on the holes.

 

Oval : H: 15.24 mm

B: 7.62 mm

Round Acryl : 12.7

backlight : 16

Rotary : 10.16

 

Over all panel length off.

You must be right since you’re sitting on this panel.

I tought I had the panels dimensions all figured out.

Backplate with = 146.05mm

Hight = adjusted after how many Dzus.

Acryl plate = backplate -0.8mm in all direction.

(Are you 100% sure you didn’t measure from the inner chamfer?)

 

No holes for the indicators

In the Backplate? I am not sure how I will make the indicators. So I have put that on a hold for now.

Light plate single indicator hole and double indicator hole to small.

Thank you very much, I will try to adjust them to a more accurate size.

Font is incorrect ( I know you know it)

Yes I know. For some reason Inventor wont extrude the ms font because of a font loop.

No lay out for back lighting.

This is WIP on all panels, And I think I got a really nice way to do this with white acrylic. Doing some testing at home and it looks promising.

No lay out for the yellow and NVIS striping.

It should be? There is an extruded 0.1mm line on the panel. The thought about this is that they will be hand painted or sprayed on with stencil.

 

the second panel I took a quick look at is the Antenna select panel

Dzus placement is incorrect.

I tought this panel was 5 Dzus heights (height back plate = 47,625 mm )

over all length incorrect

Backplate or the acrylic one?

Hole lay out for the pre 210 radio is incorrect

That is 100% true, I only got pictures to make these references, doing the best I can with what I got.

I will do some more study of the pictures I collected of the panel and try to adjust them to a more accurate placement.

hole size for the light plate is incorrect.

This I need to find out the right dimensions for.

Switch labeling incorrect ( You know this)

I should have picket this up earlier.

Light plate back nut relief cuts to small.

This will be adjusted to fit with Honeywell switches.

 

 

 

All of this is just little stuff and not a complete list.

Your major problem is your over all lay out and lack of any space between the panels.

 

All of your Dzus rails are installed back ward.

I had no Idea. I just used the Rails for reference to see if the panels collided in the collision model.

(And they did not) But it’s true that there is no space between the back plates.

I will look into this.

you dont have consistence toggle switch hole sizes.

This will be fixed.

 

It looks good for a start but it wont function well if your going to use Dzus rail. Or a replica lay out

As it is right now with just a short check your panels would not fit in the consoles.

I have no Idea what to do about that. I thought using the panel Dzus standard they would fit the console.

 

I am sure with a review of some information you can straighten all of this out and more quite easily. Keep up the good work DM.

 

Again Thanks for the constructive critique and feedback.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Lars

[Mike Powell]

Lars,

 

On the off chance that you have not seen these documents, I thought I would mention them. They are old military standards that provide information about panels. They can generally be found with a Google search.

 

MS25212 Control panel, Console type, aircraft equipment, basic dimensions

MS25213 Control panel, aircraft equipment, typical installation

MIL-C-6781B Control panel: aircraft equipment, rack or console mounted

MIL-C-81774A Control panel, aircraft, general requirements for

MIL-F-25173A Fastener, control panel, aircraft equipment

MIL-M-18012B Markings for aircrew station displays, design and configuration of

MIL-P-7788F Panels, information, integrally illuminated

 

 

Keep up the great work.

[Deadman]

 

Im building my panels in Metric, so I guess there will be some small +- in the dimensions. Previously you stated your building off of the Dzus connector or that would be multiples of 0.375 inch. I would stick with the imperial measurement or use the exact metric equivalent. your +/- is in the hundredth of an inch

 

 

Dzus hole spacing is off in both horizontal and in the vertical. from the edge of the panel.

holes are approx size for real Dzus, Will you use Dzus connectors or replicas?

The plan is to use real Dzus connectors for my build.

If I move the Dzus holes from the bottom and one Dzus up It dosent look even close to the real panel, same from top to one Dzus down…

You have misunderstood me.

The top left Dzus mounting hole should be 0.192 inch from the left edge to the center of the Dzus mounting hole and fron the top down it should be 0.562 down edge of the back plate to center of the hole . Then a multiple of 0.375 between the holes there is more information in MS 25212. if you want this to fit in the Dzus rail you can have +/- 0.005 error in some places. So I would stick with imperial and get you drawings spot on. or smack you head repeatedly against a solid wall in your house.

Switch mounting holes size is incorrect, no anti torque holes for the switches.

Yes I will fix this. I will adjust the anti torque after the Honeywell data sheet because that’s the switches I am going to use.

I was unsure what hole size to use in the backplate/back of topplate and acryl plate.

Im still unsure. So if you or someone else want to share the accurate size it would be very apriciated.

In the mean while I will use the following dimensions on the holes.

 

Oval : H: 15.24 mm

B: 7.62 mm

Round Acryl : 12.7

backlight : 16

Rotary : 10.16

 

Over all panel length off.

You must be right since you’re sitting on this panel.

I tought I had the panels dimensions all figured out.

Backplate with = 146.05mm

Hight = adjusted after how many Dzus.

Acryl plate = backplate -0.8mm in all direction. Not sure where you got this from it is incorrect. Check MS 25212.

(Are you 100% sure you didn’t measure from the inner chamfer?)

Inter chamfer of? The measurements for over all height of a panel are taken from the aluminum back plate that is longer than the acrylic painted back lit plate.

 

No holes for the indicators

In the Backplate? I am not sure how I will make the indicators. So I have put that on a hold for now. Why make them just purchase a set of 18 from me

Light plate single indicator hole and double indicator hole to small.

Thank you very much, I will try to adjust them to a more accurate size.

Font is incorrect ( I know you know it)

Yes I know. For some reason Inventor wont extrude the ms font because of a font loop.

No lay out for back lighting.

This is WIP on all panels, And I think I got a really nice way to do this with white acrylic. Doing some testing at home and it looks promising.

No lay out for the yellow and NVIS striping.

It should be? There is an extruded 0.1mm line on the panel. The thought about this is that they will be hand painted or sprayed on with stencil.

Yes the yellow caution strip is painted on but the NVIS lighting is engrave in to the panel the same as the other lines or text.

the second panel I took a quick look at is the Antenna select panel

Dzus placement is incorrect.

I tought this panel was 5 Dzus heights (height back plate = 47,625 mm )

I have no Idea I don't use metric in my plans. The panel are designed in imperial the same as the Dzus rail.

over all length incorrect

Backplate or the acrylic one? Back plate

Hole lay out for the pre 210 radio is incorrect

That is 100% true, I only got pictures to make these references, doing the best I can with what I got.

I will do some more study of the pictures I collected of the panel and try to adjust them to a more accurate placement.

hole size for the light plate is incorrect.

This I need to find out the right dimensions for.

Switch labeling incorrect ( You know this)

I should have picket this up earlier.

Light plate back nut relief cuts to small.

This will be adjusted to fit with Honeywell switches.

 

 

 

All of this is just little stuff and not a complete list.

Your major problem is your over all lay out and lack of any space between the panels.

 

All of your Dzus rails are installed back ward.

I had no Idea. I just used the Rails for reference to see if the panels collided in the collision model.

(And they did not) But it’s true that there is no space between the back plates.

I will look into this.

you dont have consistence toggle switch hole sizes.

This will be fixed.

 

It looks good for a start but it wont function well if your going to use Dzus rail. Or a replica lay out

As it is right now with just a short check your panels would not fit in the consoles.

I have no Idea what to do about that. I thought using the panel Dzus standard they would fit the console. Check MS 25212 the margen for error in the dzus system is very small

 

I am sure with a review of some information you can straighten all of this out and more quite easily. Keep up the good work DM.

 

Again Thanks for the constructive critique and feedback. Your welcome

[vicx]

I'm finding this thread really interesting but what I am wondering is how far your pit designs depart from the pit dimensions of Eagle's DCS A-10C pit.

 

Having all the DCS pits exported/converted to a solid modelling format like STEP would I guess guarantee this kind of 1:1 virtual/physical match.

Edited September 22, 2015 by vicx
cleaning up posts which were bit too off topic

[Deadman]

Who's pit? mine or what Lars may build in the future? I am not sure who your asking.

[vicx]

Deadman, of course I ask ALL people who are active in making designs for pits. Are your plans for a Physical DCS Pit (EDM source) or for a Physical Replica Pit (data comes from other source).

Edited September 22, 2015 by vicx

[Deadman]

I think you want to start a new thread instead of derailing Lars's panel thread.

[JCook]

Huh?

 

vicx

 

I agree with Deadman - you should start a new thread if you want to pursue your topic. But I have to say that what you are trying to do, as I understand it, makes no sense to me. Why have a physical pit with a virtual helmet? You're going to use a Virtual Reality headset to look around the A10's 3D cockpit and then blindly grope around for the actual physical switches, knobs and levers? :huh: Makes no sense.

 

The whole point of building a simpit is to be able to interact with the simulation as if you were in the real cockpit. Ideally, the only video display you should see is view outside the canopy.

 

If you're intent on a VR headset solution then maybe you should look into some VR gloves that could act as a mouse pointer in the VR cockpit display...

[vicx]

A next generation VR headset will change the game. Where you look when you turn your head is exactly where you look. When you move your head closer to things they get closer by the exact same amount ... it is quite precise.

 

This is why I might prefer a physical pit that is 1:1 exact match to the pit as it is in DCS.

 

As you say Deadman, I can make a new thread for people who want to talk about physical pits for VR users.

Edited September 22, 2015 by vicx
cleaning up posts which were bit too off topic

[Lars]

I know what you talk about. But I think it will be very hard to match every switch etc. to match what you see in the VR.

Anyway if you want 1:1 of the real cockpit you should maybe wait for Deadmans build.

What I am trying to do is to make as close to 1:1 panels that is possible for me to do with the information I got.

Im happy with the ressult so far. All the panels are now done, and only need some tuning.

And after release I will continue update the panels with the feedback I get from you guys.

[Mr_Burns]

I cant imagine its even possible to use a VR helmet in a physical pit, you still like to look at what it is your pushing outside of hotas, the minute you take your hand of the stick its got no reference point, so mid flight you might reach out to turn the hud colour and switch off the master arm!

 

If you look at some the newer pits, like Eurofighters alot of switches have different shaped heads, I would hazard a guess is so you know not to press them if your not looking.

 

Anyway - back on topic.....