Engine over-heat issues

[BSS_Vidar]

Am I missing a step? Been having issues with the engine over heating even with MP and RPM in the green - let alone Max Continuous Power at 45" and 2,700 RPM. Been cycling the guarded oil and air coolers after engine start with no difference in managing engine over-heat. Watched a video of a P-51C cockpit flow for start up, run up, take off, and climb out where he runs all day at 46" and 2,700 RPM with no indications even coming close to over heat.

 

What am I missing?

 

V

[msalama]

Open the rads manually and see if that helps.

[Yo-Yo]

Am I missing a step? Been having issues with the engine over heating even with MP and RPM in the green - let alone Max Continuous Power at 45" and 2,700 RPM. Been cycling the guarded oil and air coolers after engine start with no difference in managing engine over-heat. Watched a video of a P-51C cockpit flow for start up, run up, take off, and climb out where he runs all day at 46" and 2,700 RPM with no indications even coming close to over heat.

 

What am I missing?

 

V

 

Possibly, you have problems with your inputs mapping setting radiators to manual closed. 2700 46" requires almost minimum of opening for level flight. At continuous looping it opens more.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

And those steep climbs we do while dogfighting are also a nightmare for the engine temps...

 

During taxi to rw I always start opening my rads ( both ) to what I believe being there extreme position ( we do not have an indication in the cockpit of the modeled p51d in DCS, and in the online server I am using external views aren't allowed... )

 

I do my climb to starting combat alt with the rads fully opened, or, if weather is cold, I can set them to Auto.

 

When the fun starts, I manually open them again.

 

Have two of my small pov switches in the X55 assigned for Open / Close / Auto and Guard - very handy :)

 

As much as I like to vly the Pony, I have to recognize how much more simple to fly the German fighters were... So simple indeed in terms of temperatures management...

[BSS_Vidar]

Thanks, I've been leaving them in Auto the whole time - as per the tutorial.

That means there is a problem with the auto function programing in the Radiator systems within the sim. They shouldn't need to be manually manipulated to have effective cooling. After start, you guard them and shouldn't have to manually do anything unless there is damage/failure.

 

Enjoy the video to see what I mean...

 

jcomm, I too have the switches assigned to a 4-way switch on my CH Pro Throttle. ;-) To guard them into Auto, I just use the mouse.

 

V

Edited April 13, 2015 by BSS_Vidar

[Random]

The rads open and close slowly and in automatic simply start opening when temp climbs above the green and start closing when below the green. So if you suddenly increase output and decrease airflow it won't react in time.

[msalama]

a problem with the auto function programing

Not necessarily, because the automatic system reacts pretty slowly.

 

EDIT: schnyp'd by Random I see

[mvsgas]

Am I missing a step? Been having issues with the engine over heating even with MP and RPM in the green - let alone Max Continuous Power at 45" and 2,700 RPM. Been cycling the guarded oil and air coolers after engine start with no difference in managing engine over-heat. Watched a video of a P-51C cockpit flow for start up, run up, take off, and climb out where he runs all day at 46" and 2,700 RPM with no indications even coming close to over heat.

 

What am I missing?

 

V

 

Thanks, I've been leaving them in Auto the whole time - as per the tutorial.

That means there is a problem with the auto function programing in the Radiator systems within the sim. They shouldn't need to be manually manipulated to have effective cooling. After start, you guard them and shouldn't have to manually do anything unless there is damage/failure.

 

Enjoy the video to see what I mean...

 

jcomm, I too have the switches assigned to a 4-way switch on my CH Pro Throttle. ;-) To guard them into Auto, I just use the mouse.

 

V

 

If we compare the video of the P-51C to our D model, we have to assume the have the same parameters ( which, I do not know if they do) and we have to assume they have the same gauges (temperature , RPM, etc.) On the video you posted, it seems to me he was flying at 30 inches and 24K rpm, Coolant temp seem to be around 120 ( all the way to the right like in DCS) Oil was quickly climbing to 80 (Like in DCS). Speed was about 150 to 175. Seem to me they are working the same. So, what is the problems?

[BSS_Vidar]

There are only subtle differenced between the C and the D. The powerplant is the same and the RADs are the same. The problem, as well as a dozen of my squadron-mates are having, is engines being chewed up in the climb at or above 150mph indicated with both MP and RPM "in the green" (MOD inst panel) in Auto Rad mode - nowhere near Max Con at 46" and 2700RPM. At times only being able to maintain "at most" 1000 ft/min in a climb before the oil temp starts climbing.

 

Now in the video, what's not normal is he cruses it up early because he's flying over and airfield at 1,000ft and staying below the FAR speed limit of 200kts.

 

Our compadres above obviously don't trust the modeling of the Auto Rad system, or they wouldn't be manually manipulating the RADs.

 

V

[Art-J]

Haven't tested the Mustang in latest build yet, so I don't know is anything changed in radiator ops, but keep in mind that speed is equally (if not more) important part of equation compared to RPMs and MAP alone. I never go below 170 mph during the climb, 'cause i know it's asking for trouble.

[BSS_Vidar]

My findings with the RADs manually opened.

I maintain Max Con at 46" and 7,200RPM at a speed of 270MPH at 1,000ft/min climb. The oil temp doesn't go above 60 deg C. That's 10 deg C below the bottom of the green arche! A significant difference to the Auto-mode which "should" be protecting the engine much better than currently modeled.

 

The temp did climb, but only after maintaining above 50"MP and 3,000RPM. After re-setting to Max Con, the oil cools down quickly.

 

V

[sobek]

A significant difference to the Auto-mode which "should" be protecting the engine much better than currently modeled.

 

If you could bridge the gap as to how running the oil below optimum operating temperature does protect the engine, then you're all set to have an argument. You need to remember that oil is chosen for a certain viscosity at its operating temperature. If operating temperature is not achieved, the viscosity will differ from optimum as well. The desired operating temperature is a few degrees short of the red line and that is where the radiator control tries to keep it.

Edited April 15, 2015 by sobek

[msalama]

but keep in mind that speed is equally (if not more) important part

Exactly! You need lots of airflow at high(ish) power, or the Merlin overheats. So I'm not sure if this is actually a bug to begin with, TBH.

 

Anyway, as a groundpounder, I usually don't suffer from this at all. Not even with the Korean heatwaves of +30°C or above ;)

Edited April 15, 2015 by msalama

[msalama]

...EXCEPT that the latest patch introducing engine detonation physics _has_ made something different it seems. My Merlin died on me 2 times in a row flying a particular CAS mission, and AFAIK I wasn't hit either time. Have to investigate this further, but I was running like maybe 50"/3000RPM when this happened - and that should(?) be OK for a shortish attack run I'd imagine? And this with both rads wide open too. Hmmm...

[fastfreddie]

And those steep climbs we do while dogfighting are also a nightmare for the engine temps...

 

During taxi to rw I always start opening my rads ( both ) to what I believe being there extreme position ( we do not have an indication in the cockpit of the modeled p51d in DCS, and in the online server I am using external views aren't allowed... )

 

I do my climb to starting combat alt with the rads fully opened, or, if weather is cold, I can set them to Auto.

 

When the fun starts, I manually open them again.

 

Have two of my small pov switches in the X55 assigned for Open / Close / Auto and Guard - very handy :)

 

As much as I like to vly the Pony, I have to recognize how much more simple to fly the German fighters were... So simple indeed in terms of temperatures management...

 

Glad to see that the Mustangs now have similar problems to the Dora now with overheating. First thing I would do when entering any engagement was to open the radiators more than the initial setting and always wondered how Mustangs going full blast didn't have to cut engine power to avoid overheating like I did. I'll have to give the Mustang another shot before the P-47D gets here. I noticed that K-4 people were having problems with overheating as well but I also would open the radiator full in it also in prolonged turning/climbing engagements. The automatic cooling systems in all these planes suffer with constant changes.

[Teapot]

... always wondered how Mustangs going full blast didn't have to cut engine power to avoid overheating like I did.

 

IMO, you shouldn't use *that* observation to make an informed opinion on Mustang engine heat management vs. other planes.

 

The Mustang overheats quite handily unless you fly it properly. From my perspective as a flyer of all DCS props; engine management is a crucial aspect of ALL the WWII planes, and none are any easier than the other ... IMO.

[fastfreddie]

IMO, you shouldn't use *that* observation to make an informed opinion on Mustang engine heat management vs. other planes.

 

The Mustang overheats quite handily unless you fly it properly. From my perspective as a flyer of all DCS props; engine management is a crucial aspect of ALL the WWII planes, and none are any easier than the other ... IMO.

 

I flew the Mustang tonight and didn't see alot of overheating problems unless my speed dropped below 250 mph. Ran full WEP for over 10 mins in a straight line with no problems but in steady climbs or more than a few turns/climbing turns it would overheat. I agree that with all props engine management in crucial but in the times I flew it before this patch it rarely was an issue in the Mustang or 109.

[msalama]

died on me 2 times in a row

UPDATE: and now I know why. I had my rads 100% open all the time in order to not overheat the powerplant, and as a consequence actually ran it too cold - and that broke the engine shortly after applying full power. The problem disappeared when I switched the rads to auto after reaching cruising altitude and just left them there for the rest of the mission.

 

So all in all, engine management including temps is harder now & I like it :thumbup:

[Teapot]

My findings with the RADs manually opened.

I maintain Max Con at 46" and 7,200RPM at a speed of 270MPH at 1,000ft/min climb. The oil temp doesn't go above 60 deg C. That's 10 deg C below the bottom of the green arche! A significant difference to the Auto-mode which "should" be protecting the engine much better than currently modeled.

 

The temp did climb, but only after maintaining above 50"MP and 3,000RPM. After re-setting to Max Con, the oil cools down quickly.

 

V

 

Yup .. I've been doing this low level as well ...

 

If you could bridge the gap as to how running the oil below optimum operating temperature does protect the engine, then you're all set to have an argument. You need to remember that oil is chosen for a certain viscosity at its operating temperature. If operating temperature is not achieved, the viscosity will differ from optimum as well. The desired operating temperature is a few degrees short of the red line and that is where the radiator control tries to keep it.

 

Then it could be a bug because I think you just said that operating below optimum temps for extended periods will wreck the engine (which operates best under specific temperature limits/viscosity etc). That makes sense to me and it also means I'm not flying it properly.

 

I haven't experienced engine damage doing this, perhaps because I tend to keep an eye on the gauge and when it creeps too far north I switch back to auto rad to also gain as much aerodynamic efficiency as I can (I recall reading somewhere radiator being open increased drag).

 

Also .. using the big stick approach I've been opening the oil as well as the air radiators (the two switches mapped to 2 adjacent switches on my joystick so it's easy just to mash them open or mash them auto).

 

Maybe I'm gaming the game (I really hope not .. because then it IS a bug) .. but it sure works and allows me to mix it up below 4000' ... I think it's time to re-visit the manual :).

Edited April 22, 2015 by Teapot

[Teapot]

...

 

During taxi to rw I always start opening my rads ( both ) to what I believe being there extreme position ( we do not have an indication in the cockpit of the modeled p51d in DCS, and in the online server I am using external views aren't allowed... )

 

 

I think the manual states that if you hold the switches open for a count of 20 seconds it will be fully opened/closed.

[msalama]

I haven't experienced engine damage doing this

 

Doing what, revving a cool engine? Well I have, see my previous post in this thread ;)

[Teapot]

Doing what, revving a cool engine? Well I have, see my previous post in this thread ;)

 

No .. that's not what I said and not what I meant.

*This* in the context I was talking about is the use of *manual open* for the two radiator switches.

To elaborate, I haven't wrecked an engine using this method ... but as I pointed out I don't generally let it stay in the *cool* region for too long before I switch it back to auto. It makes for a busy cockpit management experience ... but it seems to work for me.

Maybe I'm just fantastically gifted at managing engine/oil/coolant temps? :pilotfly:

[SnowTiger]

I have been flying the P-51 a lot lately and I haven't experienced any issues with the engine dying.

 

However... I do feel like it is a tad slow. I have a hard time getting it past 270 mph in level flight and after reading some of the comments here, I can't tell if I'm flying the plane well and having great engine management, or I'm doing something wrong and that's why the aircraft seems slow lol.

 

Trimming the Rudder (constantly) so the Slip Indicator (Ball) is Always Centered, will ensure minimal drag and maximum speed. While climbing the ball is moving to the right and thus has to be corrected which in turn increases my climb rate. When speeding up and/or Diving, the ball moves left, requiring that I adjust it accordingly.

Also if the Rad Damper is all the way open, it will create enough drag to hinder your performance.

 

However, I still think the P-51D lacks overall speed/performance based on every documentary I have seen (with actual fighter pilots).

 

On the other hand, >>> Since the latest update (which I only installed on Sunday April 19th .. after Shahdoh's Races), I have found the Engine likes to just quite for seemingly no reason.

I'm not talking about and Engine Seizure but more like it's running out of gas and then just slowly dying and ultimately quitting (shutting down).

I'm not doing ANYTHING that I haven't done a thousand times before. In fact, this even happened once today about 3 minutes after take-off. I barely got it in the air and it puked on me. It doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all.

As such, I can't help but to think it is something to do with the Patch/Update which also appears to have had a slight affect on the Mustang's Start-Up making it slightly more difficult to start, although it is easily overcome with a minor tweak to the startup/Priming procedure.

 

I would really like to know what gives with the Engine Failure/Shut Down I am now experiencing ?

If an engine randomly dies like this when it hasn't been pushed at all, I can't see it being very reliable for battle, let alone racing !

[Teapot]

I have been flying the P-51 a lot lately and I haven't experienced any issues with the engine dying.

 

However... I do feel like it is a tad slow. I have a hard time getting it past 270 mph in level flight and after reading some of the comments here, I can't tell if I'm flying the plane well and having great engine management, or I'm doing something wrong and that's why the aircraft seems slow lol.

 

Found this .. http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=513

 

They mention cruise speed for the P51-D is 275mph ... but a bit scant on other detail like @ what altitude whether it's IAS .. TAS .. etc. Maybe there's an assumption I'm missing as I'm no aeronautical expert either.

 

At what altitude are you referring? When I fly the P51-D to experience it's speed (just tootlin' around the map), I generally get to about 10K ' and can get to a tad under 400Mph no problems. But I do some slight dives to get the speed up :D .. but then it seems to settle in quite nicely.

[SnowTiger]

@Teapot I generally fly between 50 and 5000 feet AGL. Rarely do I get any higher and more often than not, I'm close to the ground. But even "I" (who has often complained about this Mustang) can cruise closer to 300-325 max in level flight (give or take a bit).

 

@SVTONY I'm not so sure about your approach. It doesn't seem to meet anything I have read, seen or tried. Although, in Mustang Racing (Shahdoh's Mustang Racing Series 2015), we have flown Full Throttle, WEP ON and RPM at 2700 and keep it like that for a full 20 minutes (consistently if you are really good .... Sadly .. I'm NOT !!).

There are several factors which will determine whether or not you go that long at that setting ... but I'm sworn to secrecy ! LOL