How to quickly seize the engine?

[Bucic]

I fancy some glider action and Mustang doesn't give any possibility to put the propeller in feather position. Engine off or 'blown' is not enough. The propeller needs to stop completely. I managed to achieve this once but I can't reproduce it.

 

Thank you for your assistance :)

[kontiuka]

Won't it seize if you let the coolant overheat - full throttle, low airspeed, radiator flaps closed?

[Bucic]

Won't it seize if you let the coolant overheat - full throttle, low airspeed, radiator flaps closed?

Coolant overheat and won't seize? I don't understand.

Also, what about the propeller RPM setting (P)?

[kontiuka]

Coolant overheat and won't seize? I don't understand.

Also, what about the propeller RPM setting (P)?

No. I'm saying it probably will seize if you let the coolant overheat. 3000 RPM ought to do it.

 

EDIT: You might even be able to cause a failure using the mission editor.

Edited May 28, 2015 by kontiuka

[Buzzles]

From what I recall, it's pretty easy to seize it if you open the throttle up and drop the rpm lever right down and leave it there for a while.

[Bucic]

No. I'm saying it probably will seize if you let the coolant overheat. 3000 RPM ought to do it.

 

EDIT: You might even be able to cause a failure using the mission editor.

Oh, sorry.

ME didn't help. Governor failure + engine jam and the propeller still rotates even at 150 kph. I'll try the coolant method again, and the one with throttle open, bam! to low RPM.

 

EDIT:

Track included. It took me 5 minutes to kill this thing. I tried everything on closed cooler flaps. Something doesn't seem right.

bucic_p-51_engineabuse.trk

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bucic

[Art-J]

61 inches of MAP or 67? On 67 with radiators manually closed it used to fry as quickly as CloD planes in similar conditions, i.e. a minute or two and it's dead. That was a couple of patches ago, though, I haven't tried to kill it for some time :D

[Bucic]

61 inches of MAP or 67? On 67 with radiators manually closed it used to fry as quickly as CloD planes in similar conditions, i.e. a minute or two and it's dead. That was a couple of patches ago, though, I haven't tried to kill it for some time :D

I yanked the levers all the way forward using mouse. For the rest - see the track, if you dare :)

[Art-J]

Watched most of it. You are not trying to break it hard enough :D.

 

a) Fly lower. At high altitudes You won't even pull 50 inches of MAP;

b) Don't use emergency rich mixture setting, because it cools the engine and actually makes blowing it up harder :) ;

c) Throttle lever was not "all the way forward", there's a steel wire You have to snap to push it further to War Emergency Power. Don't remember default key assignment, it might be "W";

d) Fly slower, to make closed radiators even less efficient.

 

All and all: 67 inches of MAP + lean mixture + closed rads + low speed = fireworks in probably less than a minute.

 

Now, I don't remember if it's possible to go 67" without emergency rich mixture, but with or without, the engine will fry fast.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Art-J

[kontiuka]

c) Throttle lever was not "all the way forward", there's a steel wire You have to snap to push it further to War Emergency Power. Don't remember default key assignment, it might be "W";

I believe it's "E" and will only work if the throttle is all the way forward.

[Bucic]

Thanks, Art!

BTW, there's no indicator for the coolant flaps positions. How long does it take for them to close from full-open positions?

I need some alt for the gliding...

 

Thanks, kontiuka!

[Art-J]

I admit I never checked how long it takes exactly, something about 20-few seconds maybe. The servomotor for coolant radiator is so noisy, however, we can hear it through the engine running at low RPM :D. Oil radiator is much more quiet, but full operation cycle probably takes similar amount of time.

[Bucic]

I abused it so hard mu PC crashed :D

 

OK, I get that on 10000 m it's cold but kept both coolant and oil temperatures way over red tresholds. Like +15%. Should OAT matter in such a case?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bucic

[Art-J]

I abused it so hard mu PC crashed :D

 

:D :D :D

 

 

OK, I get that on 10000 m it's cold but kept both coolant and oil temperatures way over red tresholds. Like +15%. Should OAT matter in such a case?

 

Hmmm... Maybe it somewhat should. On the other hand, at such high altitude, the MAP is barely comparable to leisurely cruising at low alts, so maybe +15% temps are not high enough (after all, we cross the redline a little in "normal" operations every now and then for some time and the Merlin is kind of OK with it).

 

I would make a single test at very low altitude to see how hot both coolant and oil really have to be to fry the engine.

[Bucic]

I've done a low-alt test and I give up.

bucic_p-51_engineabuse2.trk

[Echo38]

This is an easy, easy one! All you have to do is go WEP at 5000 ft. or less, and hold your airplane at ~100 MPH for maybe 30 seconds. You will hear a BANG and the propeller will instantly stop (a bit strange that it doesn't shatter going from 3000 to exactly 0 RPM in 0.0 seconds). You don't even have to manually shut the radiators, it'll happen even with them all the way open.

 

Update: of course, as soon as I open my mouth, I can't do it--the propeller didn't stop when I tried this just now from an air-start. But every time I have a dogfight and try to do a few slow-speed hammerhead-type manuevers, this happens to me. As soon as I've had my coffee, I'll setup my equipment and see if I can't reproduce it in a dogfight vs. the AI.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Echo38

[Bucic]

I even tried hanging on my propeller at 2000 m, all rads closed, WEP. I did at least 5 such trials and: one, it takes over a minute, two, the engine does not stop. Brakes but does not stop and gives amp warning signals.

[Echo38]

Yeah, I'm having the same problem all of a sudden. It's odd, because, a few days ago, I was dogfighting the AI, and it kept happening to me the other way, continually, without even having taken fire from him. Eventually I figured out to keep an eye on my temps (not an easy thing while also keeping an eye on the bandit!) ... throttling back to max cont & unloading a bit for more airspeed, when things got too hot. But before that, the "bang stop" was happening constantly. It must be something that I do versus an enemy aircraft that I don't do when trying to replicate the effect by myself--something that I can't think of right now. Later, I'll have a dogfight and see what happens.

[Bucic]

Another track. A very shortLow alt, low speed, rads closed, WEP.

bucic_p-51_engineabuse3_short_lowalt.trk

[Art-J]

Allright, time to do this test myself.

 

Bucic, You're still not trying hard enough :D. Echo, the figures You give are correct. In track below - starting with max cruise settings (46", 2700 RPM, temps in green) which is typical for combat flight scenario, closing rads, climbing to descrease airflow through rads, WEP on, 15 seconds to first rumbling sounds, another 15 seconds to failure (measured with a stopwatch). About half a minute total, depending on temps at the beginning of the "test".

 

I agree, however, it's been a long time since I last saw the engine seize to a complete stop.

kucyk_pieczony.trk

Edited May 29, 2015 by Art-J

[msalama]

I agree, however, it's been a long time since I last saw the engine seize to a complete stop.

 

Hmmm... I used to fly with my rads wide open when I started to do some Stang groundpounding gigs again a while ago - and as a result, suffered one or two powerplant seizures because the engine was most likely too COLD. Not the question at hand here, I know, but just thought I'd mention it still ;)

[Python]

I'm surprised you're struggling to seize the engine in the P-51d. Unless it has been patched in the last couple of months, it is extremely easy to do. I find it hard to avoid at times during combat.

[Art-J]

Msalama, good catch... and a motivation for performing different test after my dinner :D.

[msalama]

different test after my dinner :D

 

Smacznego! And please report back with your findings.

[Bucic]

I'm surprised you're struggling to seize the engine in the P-51d. Unless it has been patched in the last couple of months, it is extremely easy to do. I find it hard to avoid at times during combat.

I'm trying to destroy the TF-51D. Do they differ this much in terms of engine performance and management in DCS?

 

Allright, time to do this test myself.

 

Bucic, You're still not trying hard enough :D. Echo, the figures You give are correct. In track below - starting with max cruise settings (46", 2700 RPM, temps in green) which is typical for combat flight scenario, closing rads, climbing to descrease airflow through rads, WEP on, 15 seconds to first rumbling sounds, another 15 seconds to failure (measured with a stopwatch). About half a minute total, depending on temps at the beginning of the "test".

 

I agree, however, it's been a long time since I last saw the engine seize to a complete stop.

I think I can't watch it because I don't have the module activated.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Bucic