AA-Missiles for the Ka-50!

[Stratos]

You should see it now.

 

Nope, sorry.

[Stratos]

Have you read this? It's quite good.

 

North Caucasus: Problems of Helicopter Support in Mountains

 

Is really interesting, but no explain what the Ka50 did on that war, role, weapons used...

[CASoldier2014]

Is really interesting, but no explain what the Ka50 did on that war, role, weapons used...

 

"Ka-50 took part in the Russian Army's operations against separatists in the Chechen Republic. In December 2000, a pair of production Ka-50s arrived to the area. With the Ka-50s was a Ka-29, to provide reconnaissance and target designation. On 6 January 2001, the Ka-50 used live weapons against a real enemy for the first time. On 9 January, at the entry into a mountain gorge in the area of a settlement named Komsomolskoye, a single Ka-50 accompanied by an Mi-24 used S-8 unguided rockets to destroy a warehouse full of ammunition belonging to Chechen insurgents. On 6 February, in the forest-covered mountain area to the south of the village of Tsentoroj, the strike group composed of two Ka-50s and the sole Ka-29 discovered and, from a range of 3 km, destroyed a fortified camp of insurgents using two "Vikhr" guided missiles. 14 February, saw a similar strike group carrying out a "hunting" mission in the area of Oak-Yurt and Hatun. In difficult conditions, pilots found and destroyed eight targets."

 

It was essentially an experiment, the Ka-50 was used for ground attack and recon.

It used the standart weapons that we have in DCS.

[Stratos]

Thanks for the info CASoldier! BTW I cannot see the pic yet, maybe you can check a external uploading site?

[CASoldier2014]

Thanks for the info CASoldier! BTW I cannot see the pic yet, maybe you can check a external uploading site?

 

No prob! Sure thing, mate.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0xXD7XAZa9gT2Z3bXY4WkpRcms/view?usp=sharing

[CASoldier2014]

It already has the A2A weapon selector switch on the collective.

 

Just found out that the selector is used to select Vikhrs and automatically engage the A/A mode. This mode sets the missile to use a general proximity fuse. With a proximity fuze, the warhead will detonate when it is close to the target and does not require a direct hit.

 

And the missles that looked like Igla-1Vs are probbably Vikhrs, but in a strange 2 per pylon config. Because I watched the footage again and they had a Vikhr-like shape.

[Devrim]

Ok, so I'm currently testing some 'new' weapons for the Ka-50. I have a feeling that it would be possible to make a proper mod.

CASoldier; (Maybe this post is off-topic) I want to let you know, with those mods you may not able to join some multiplayer servers. You know, some servers check essential files of your DCS to avoid cheating. So, those mods probably can be used only for personal use. :)

 

Last year, I managed a Ka-50 to carry extra Vikhr missiles at inner stations (I had total 48 Vikhrs - yaey!), but couldn't join some servers.

:poster_ban: :doh:

[CASoldier2014]

CASoldier; (Maybe this post is off-topic) I want to let you know, with those mods you may not able to join some multiplayer servers. You know, some servers check essential files of your DCS to avoid cheating. So, those mods probably can be used only for personal use. :)

 

Last year, I managed a Ka-50 to carry extra Vikhr missiles at inner stations (I had total 48 Vikhrs - yaey!), but couldn't join some servers.

:poster_ban: :doh:

 

Yes, I do know that. I've actually played around with AGM-114Ks and AGM-65Es on the 104th Phoenix. Until people noticed.. :music_whistling:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144797

[Stratos]

But you can shoot them in A-A role?

[CASoldier2014]

But you can shoot them in A-A role?

 

Tried them and they work as A-A. Though, if I were to make a mod, I would need to copy the performance data of the Igla-1E missle to this one and somehow change the model of the missle to the Igla-1E instead of the 9M114. And some additional stuff that would allow the Ka-50 to fire type 1 seekers (IR) and voila.

[Dudikoff]

Just found out that the selector is used to select Vikhrs and automatically engage the A/A mode. This mode sets the missile to use a general proximity fuse. With a proximity fuze, the warhead will detonate when it is close to the target and does not require a direct hit.

 

Where did you find this info? If that's the case, I'm surprised it's not used in the DCS and doesn't explain the "emergency jettison of AA weapons" switch?

[CASoldier2014]

Where did you find this info? If that's the case, I'm surprised it's not used in the DCS and doesn't explain the "emergency jettison of AA weapons" switch?

 

I quoted the last two sentences from the Flight Manual, but found out by testing it myself. With Vikhrs on my aircraft I pressed the switch and it selected Vikhrs + automatically turned on the A/A mode. There are certain things that the manual doesn't cover, I guess...

[Dudikoff]

I quoted the last two sentences from the Flight Manual, but found out by testing it myself. With Vikhrs on my aircraft I pressed the switch and it selected Vikhrs + automatically turned on the A/A mode. There are certain things that the manual doesn't cover, I guess...

 

Hmm, mine still says this about the control:

 

“ПС ВОЗД” – Air-to-Air missiles hardpoints [LCTRL + U]. (No function)

[Devrim]

I didn't know DSC: BlackShark2 had that "selector", but could it be "Head On" or "Airborne Target" buttons on Target Control Panel on the left side?

[Jerkzilla]

AFAIK, that selector mainly controls fuse settings for the Vikhrs (which are, after all, AA capable), I don't know if it does anything else though.

[Galwran]

If ED had all the time in the world I'd suggest they have a Reality Tier system.

 

Tier 1: Strict adherence to reality wherever possible. No Grom on MiG-21Bis as an example.

Tier 2: Mild disparities from reality. Groms on MiG-21Bis, Anti-Ship missiles on C-101, Igla's on Ka-50's, etc. Things that seem highly plausible either because they have been tested and shown to be possible, or could 'easily' be made possible.

Tier 3: All kinds of silliness. AIM-54 on F-15C...

 

Then when setting up a server or creating a mission you could set a Reality Tier.

 

But again, only if they had all the time in the world to develop such a system. But they don't, so I'd prefer reality or close to reality...

 

Just to cast in my two cents: clearly, we do accept unrealistic "tier 2" even now in DCS and in many other simulations. For example having Kuznetsov in F4 AF or having a simulator of the Comanche in the first place.

 

Also, there are a lot of things that might not currently be realistic, but would be plausible in the case of a large shooting war. For example, mounting a rudimentary RWR on tha Ka-50 would be plausible, and giving a handheld GPS receiver to Mi-8 and Su-25 pilots has been already tried in conflict zones. Also, carrying triple mavericks with the A-10 is no-go, but in a Fulda gap-scenario it would work.

 

So I'm all for plausible possibilities and house rules on servers. Like no nukes or Triple mavs.

 

So, I'm not for silliness, but if we have to have a war simulation, then we also have to make some assumptions and call it 2025 scenario or something :) Maybe the mods could move this in to a separate thread; I'd say this is not only about the advertised AA missiles of the Ka-50.

[CASoldier2014]

I didn't know DSC: BlackShark2 had that "selector", but could it be "Head On" or "Airborne Target" buttons on Target Control Panel on the left side?

 

Airborne Target.

[CASoldier2014]

Hmm, mine still says this about the control:

 

“ПС ВОЗД” – Air-to-Air missiles hardpoints [LCTRL + U]. (No function)

 

Mine says the same. In addition to „“ВЦ” (Airborne target) button. When targeting an aircraft with Vikhr and the aspect is changing or is other than high-aspect, press this button to set the missile to use a general proximity fuse. With a proximity fuze, the warhead will detonate when it is close to the target and does not require a direct hit. [V]“. (Page 176)

 

So it has a function: it selects Vikhrs + Airborne Target mode.

[Frostie]

Even if Iglas could be used on the Kamov you'd have to sacrifice its primary weapon the Vikhr.

There would probably be little point in carrying them other than for flying a purposeful anti chopper mission.

[CASoldier2014]

Even if Iglas could be used on the Kamov you'd have to sacrifice its primary weapon the Vikhr.

There would probably be little point in carrying them other than for flying a purposeful anti chopper mission.

 

True, even though the Ka-50 was advertised as being able to carry them on the very tips of it's wings.

[Frostie]

True, even though the Ka-50 was advertised as being able to carry them on the very tips of it's wings.

Just food for thought before you go head long into a mod that may not have too much use.

Tips of the wings would be ideal but not sure how that would affect the flare dispensers though.

[CASoldier2014]

Just food for thought before you go head long into a mod that may not have too much use.

Tips of the wings would be ideal but not sure how that would affect the flare dispensers though.

 

They might clip through or might not work. In either case, I would add them to the outter stations.

 

Now, I'm not sure if I'll make a mod, since I would need some help from others..

[Avimimus]

True, even though the Ka-50 was advertised as being able to carry them on the very tips of it's wings.

 

It was advertised as carrying Igla missiles under the wing tips.

 

However, all of the demo flights showed it carrying the R-73 on the main hardpoints. So, that is where the R-73 would have gone if a client had purchased the upgrade.

[Rogue Trooper]

I guess the down side is that "IF" ED implemented Air to Air missiles they will go on the outer weapon station and we would then loose all those glorious Vikhrs for that sortie!

Horror!

 

Did some one mention the RWR yet?:D

[dimitriov]

First : sorry for my poor english...

 

I use to play the Kamov-50 for nearly 4 years... I shot down airplanes with Vikhr, like A-10, F-15, Su-27... but it was more a tricky shot than something else. I'm talking about real players, not the AI which comes to you on a direct way from 10 km !

 

Iglas on the kamov-50 sure don't exist. And there isn't any way to prove that they would have been set on it if it had been mass produced.

 

But well, let's consider this mod which brings a real color screen to the Skhval. I won't download it because i know it's totally unrealistic. But some will because they want to play like this.

 

It could be the same for the Iglas, and not necessarily by an ED update, just by providing to modders the way to add them.

 

So surely a little unrealistic (in english, I think in such situation you say "What if ?"), but very good for matchmaking.

 

On PVP servers, i use to get shot down by Mig-29, Su-27, F-15... They don't share the same model level, and they will detect me from 40 km, while I'm hovering 1 meter above ground, or above a forest, because you want to play realistically and you don't move across it. It's totally unfair, and unrealistic, and it won't matter how you play, what's your level, you won't have any chance against them.

 

So, giving the ability to add Iglas on Kamov-50, as well as disabling them (You just have to disable them in the Airport config panel) wouldn't be realistic, but could be more balanced.

 

I know that some simmers don't want it, but if it's an option, what's the problem ? You have an "easy flight" option in your DCS, do you use it ? Do you complain about its presence ? You have bombs ont your Kamov, do you use them ? (ok yes they currently exist on it but you usually prefer to use Vikhr and rockts instead...)

 

The day FC3 fighters will have a realistic radar gestion, there won't be any complaints about this. But I really think it's more simple to ED to just give elementary tools to provide the IR option in the systems lua than to modify the whole FC3 radar system.

 

So to sum up : give us the possibility to mod it, the ones who don't want it won't use it, the others will enjoy your decision. And I think it's fair no ? Because, to be perfectly honest, i wouldn't use them. Nope. But some who don't share my philosophy could use Iglas, without modifying the gameplay for the ones who don't want it ...

 

Nicolas

 

ps : For the RWR, be sure that the Gazelle will be very very useful combined with the kamov ;)

Edited August 7, 2015 by dimitriov