Joni Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 I shoulda just attached this from the get go. Staring at diagrams makes me feel like a little kid again. :D Incidentally I just tested it and you can start the right engine with the crossfeed open and all boost pumps off. If you shut the crossfeed immediately after the engine start cycle light extinguishes you'll get a right fuel pressure warning and the right engine will shut down. How much of that is realistic is beyond me. I understand more now about this. One more: the manual says that the crossfeed is for the boost pumps, so why do they work on the dc pumps? Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Because its still a boost pump as per the diagram. The crossfeed doesn't care whats pressurizing the system, all its doing is opening a valve that permits the pressure from the left system to enter the right system wherever it comes from. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I understand more now about this. One more: the manual says that the crossfeed is for the boost pumps, so why do they work on the dc pumps? Did you even look at the image Funk posted? Should be clear why from that. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Did you even look at the image Funk posted? Should be clear why from that. :P There is the snoopy we know! Yes I did, I am sorry if I wasnt able to figure it out that way, not all of us are so smart. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Because its still a boost pump as per the diagram. The crossfeed doesn't care whats pressurizing the system, all its doing is opening a valve that permits the pressure from the left system to enter the right system wherever it comes from. OK, I see now, thanks. What about the fact that turning all the boost pumps off doesnt make the right engine to shut down? If I understood this correctly, the right engine should go off. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 OK, I see now, thanks. What about the fact that turning all the boost pumps off doesnt make the right engine to shut down? If I understood this correctly, the right engine should go off. I'd suggest reading the -1, here is a link to the A model -1 which covers the topic. http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=42 Again, you're doing something because others have said they can't duplicate your behavior. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 I'd suggest reading the -1, here is a link to the A model -1 which covers the topic. http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=42 Again, you're doing something because others have said they can't duplicate your behavior. Huh? I was able to turn off all the pumps. Climb to 21,500ft with the crossfeed off then go to 350+. Able to then go to 450 in a dive all the way to sea level. I did +8 G and -2G without issue. I tried high AOA at speed and as slow as 100mph. I was unable to get either engine to shutoff . Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 I do see that the dc pump is modeled, and that the crossfeed is modeled too. However, If I try to turn the right engine without any pump or crossfeed it will not start (this is correct), but when I switch a boost pump then the engine will have fuel forever no matter I shut off the right pumps, it will start always thereafter. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 I tested it again and the bug seems to be that once you turn one of the right pumps on then the game takes it as on as long as the mission lasts regardless of turning them off. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I would assume this is a bug as old as the module's early development that nobody ever bothered to test in that particular way. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koldkillr Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Upon my tests turning off the boost pumps at 25000 feet nothing shut off right away i was able to pull some high g turns as well however once i went inverted it shut off immediately. so it may not be fully modeled bit you will have adverse affects from operations with them off you may not see them until its during a high g maneuver evading a SAM but its not recommend to fly with them off for long periods. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There is no kill but overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Upon my tests turning off the boost pumps at 25000 feet nothing shut off right away i was able to pull some high g turns as well however once i went inverted it shut off immediately. so it may not be fully modeled bit you will have adverse affects from operations with them off you may not see them until its during a high g maneuver evading a SAM but its not recommend to fly with them off for long periods. The a10 always shutss down after inverted flight... Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deezle Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Yeah I can still stay inverted for a quite a while with the pumps off, however my testing was with a full load of fuel. I flew for a while with the pumps off, and then forgot about it, managed to take a bit of battle damage to an engine so I hit the crossfeed and both engines immediately died. ETA: I've found below 1400lbs of fuel the engine will die when you turn the pumps off. Edited September 6, 2015 by Deezle Intel 9600K@4.9GHz, Asus Z390, 32GB DDR4, EVGA RTX 3070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 1TB NVMe 34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" Touch Screen MFD monitor, TIR5 My Pit Build, VKB Gunfighter Pro w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals, Cougar MFDs, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koldkillr Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The a10 always shutss down after inverted flight... What? that is news to me i have never done a roll and have it shut down before. all i did was a roll as soon as i was to the inverted part it shut down. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There is no kill but overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 What? that is news to me i have never done a roll and have it shut down before. all i did was a roll as soon as i was to the inverted part it shut down. Won't shut down in a roll but anything more than 10 seconds (approx) inverted and she'll shut down. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codefox Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Won't shut down in a roll but anything more than 10 seconds (approx) inverted and she'll shut down. Depends on how much thrust you apply. When I'm doing aerobatics in the A-10, I usually fly her inverted over the runways etc and nothing happens. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Depends on how much thrust you apply. When I'm doing aerobatics in the A-10, I usually fly her inverted over the runways etc and nothing happens. It has nothing to do with thrust. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Correct, nothing to do with thrust. With the boost pumps off the time inverted until shut down is less, like 5 seconds according to the manual. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codefox Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Correct, nothing to do with thrust. With the boost pumps off the time inverted until shut down is less, like 5 seconds according to the manual. With the boost pumps off it was around 5 seconds, yes. But with boost pumps on, the thrust sure seems to matter. Just did a short test on flying inverted at three different thrust levels: Edited September 6, 2015 by codefox [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koldkillr Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Won't shut down in a roll but anything more than 10 seconds (approx) inverted and she'll shut down. It did shut down in a roll though with the boost pumps off. i was over 10,000 feet as well though. It seems to be working like it should after reading the a-10 book. Edited September 6, 2015 by Koldkillr [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There is no kill but overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I guess for some I need to remind them when I respond I'm talking about how the real A-10C should act and yes sometimes (more than not) it is different in DCS World. Not sure what is going on and I can't test but again, thrust does not affect the real aircraft when inverted. Per the -1 "For negative g flight, collector tanks will supply the engine with sufficient fuel for 10 seconds operation at MAX power." So if you're at max throttles while inverted you'll have 10 seconds before the shut off. If you have throttles set less than that they could run for longer. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codefox Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Per the -1 "For negative g flight, collector tanks will supply the engine with sufficient fuel for 10 seconds operation at MAX power." So if you're at max throttles while inverted you'll have 10 seconds before the shut off. If you have throttles set less than that they could run for longer. This kinda implies that they will run longer when flying inverted on lower thrust levels as the engines consume less fuel that way. When flying at max power it was exactly 10 seconds as you can see in the video. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Not every engine on an A-10C in the real world burns the same amount of fuel (when trimming we have plus/minus tolerances), so that is the reason the TO says could. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codefox Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Not every engine on an A-10C in the real world burns the same amount of fuel (when trimming we have plus/minus tolerances), so that is the reason the TO says could. Forgot about that fact but this makes perfect sense. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koldkillr Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I forgot you were talking about the real a-10 doh!!!!!! I was a crew cheif on the uh-60 so we never worried about inverted flight when it came to fuel at that point you had much bigger concerns ;) 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There is no kill but overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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