Joni Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 So, going back to the thread's topic: do we have a bug or not? Looks like the right pumps once turned on they cant be turned off. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koldkillr Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 So, going back to the thread's topic: do we have a bug or not? Looks like the right pumps once turned on they cant be turned off. I've tried to duplicate this still not seeing anything out of the norm yet I will test it more after school.:joystick: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There is no kill but overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 So, going back to the thread's topic: do we have a bug or not? Looks like the right pumps once turned on they cant be turned off. Upload a track showing the behavior. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The way I see it, if someone has had success demonstrating some of the -1's warnings of the effects of failed boost pumps on the aircraft engines then I assume it is in fact modeled to some degree. What Piston is perceiving as the right boost pumps remaining functional despite shutting them off could easily instead be an idealized probability of the engine suction being sufficient to stave off fuel starvation. What I mean by this is that the "up to 10 000 feet and most likely up to 20 000 feet as well" statement in the -1 about fuel suction could simply be that when they modeled the fuel system they just made it so that up to 20 000 feet everything works hunky dory based on fuel suction by the engines. Only above this where one person demonstrated negative G fuel starvation well under the assumed minimum 10 seconds is the modeling of the fuel system representing the warnings of the -1. Basically my theory is that the way they modeled the aircraft was to generalize everything into a single perfect ideal airframe that fulfilled the best case of every functionality and eventuality (errors and bugs notwithstanding). This means that the Mavericks always get perfectly boresighted when mounted unlike in real life. The Maverick is exactly boresighted at 70mils and not around 70mils as in real life. The engines always suction up to X altitude without boost pumps. The fuel collectors give you exactly 10 seconds of fuel flow at max power under negative G. So perhaps then its that since the DCS A-10C always gives you sufficient fuel suctioning up to around 20 000 feet, only above that will we see the described issues present themselves. Furthermore the scope of how people have been testing things is insufficient to demonstrate anything for certain because of arbitrarily biased parameters. One cannot test the full effect of the simulation by flying only at one altitude. Comprehensive testing is required to even understand the design intend of the sim and only then can we surmise whether its a flaw in ED's representation or design of representation of the fuel system, whether its a bug or merely our failure to understand the design and its limited representation of the dynamic variability of real life. I'm still left wondering about why the right engine fails after closing the crossfeed after a ground startup. Is the engine not able to fuel suction on the ground? Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm still left wondering about why the right engine fails after closing the crossfeed after a ground startup. Is the engine not able to fuel suction on the ground? Not only that, but why does the engine not shut down after turning a boost pump on and then turning it off. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Not only that, but why does the engine not shut down after turning a boost pump on and then turning it off. I'll say it again.... Upload your track file so ED testers can take a look. You can continue to say what is happening or you can provide objective evidence of what you see happening. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Because the engines can function after starting with out the boost pump working. https://www.shapeways.com/shops/a-10c-warthog-supplies https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Except they don't, at least on the ground when I start them with the DC boost pump and the crossfeed. If I shut the crossfeed after successfully starting the Right engine it dies within seconds. Without boost pumps in the air however and it still runs without the crossfeed. That's the one thing I've yet to fully reconcile. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Except they don't, at least on the ground when I start them with the DC boost pump and the crossfeed. If I shut the crossfeed after successfully starting the Right engine it dies within seconds. Without boost pumps in the air however and it still runs without the crossfeed. That's the one thing I've yet to fully reconcile. That definitely is a bug. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 can this be moved to the bug section or do i need to make a new thread? Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoBravo Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Except they don't, at least on the ground when I start them with the DC boost pump and the crossfeed. If I shut the crossfeed after successfully starting the Right engine it dies within seconds. Without boost pumps in the air however and it still runs without the crossfeed. That's the one thing I've yet to fully reconcile. So, Boost pumps primary job is to pressurize the fuel system to assist in engine start. In your scenario your attempting to start the #1 and #2 engines in an abnormal start, using just the DC Pump. In my tests I performed the abnormal start you describe and I was able to successfully start both engines, and yes closing the crossfeed did shut down the #2 engine. But I also did the test in a normal configuration. I then opened the crossfeed and I then secured both Right wing boost pumps. I got my normal warning indications. I then isolated the tanks by closing the crossfeed, and the #2 engine did operate normal. To see if I would get any starvation, I then went to full power and had no starvation. I wanted to test this high power test again since I had switched the boost pumps on/off and I reset the sim. I did your abnormal start, and I tested the starvation of #2 and I did get the shutdown. I restarted the #2 engine and this time never turning on any boost pumps I went full power I got a #2 engine shut down , then a #1 engine shut down. So, if this is a bug it would associated with never turning on the boost pumps. In all the tests that I did apply pressure to the #2 with boost pumps, after isolation with the crossfeed #2 engine did continue to operate. I understand fuels systems, I am an A&P, but I am not an A-10 Mech, so without proper documentation I cannot say what the performance of losing both boost pumps in one tank would be. The engine fuel pumps are (should be) more than capable to supply fuel to the engine. If I were to actually start these engines on a real A-10, I would expect them to be sufficient in fuel supply / pressure after they were brought online. So I support it being called a bug, but in a normal start you would had turned on your boost pumps and my minimal testing showed that it should work normal in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Interesting analysis. Thanks for the input. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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