Article aboat F22 in South African newspaper.

[Fanboy2006]

Death comes like a bolt from the blue

The US Air Force has unveiled a stealth fighter so advanced that no other aircraft in the world stands a chance against it, writes Roger Makings

"‘It’s going to be a tough day at the office for any fighter pilot going up against the Raptor in an air-to-air scenario. It’s an awesome aircraft’"

 

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ASK any modern fighter pilot and he’ll tell you that the last thing he wants is a fair fight. He’s not interested in matching his skills with the enemy. He doesn’t want to see whose aircraft has the tighter turning circle, the more potent weaponry or the more powerful engines.

All he wants to do is fire off his missiles and run like hell.

But that has never been possible because aviation technology has, for decades, been more or less on par.

Pilots were forced to meet at 20000ft and manoeuvre like crazy for the advantage. They are crushed into their seats as they wrench their fighters around, frantically scanning for the “bogey”. Rolling into position with guns or missiles selected, they blast away for all they are worth. Their reward — a fireball as the bogey explodes.

And they bask in the adoration and hero-worship.

In an article on the famous combat school Top Gun, which inspired the movie of the same name, these hotshots, the “greatest of the greats”, were described thus: “They didn’t have to tell anybody how great they were. All they had to do was just stand there and the aura said it all.”

But those days of glorious combat have ended and the fighter pilot’s nirvana, the unfair advantage, has become a reality — well, for a handful at Langley Air Force Base in the US, where 12 Raptors went on standby for worldwide deployment.

And the new aircraft’s pilots will be the “greatest of the greats” chosen to fly the best of the best.

The aircraft is simply the most advanced ever built. There is nothing on earth to touch it. In simulated dogfights it has wiped the floor with the opposition.

In one such encounter, six F-15 Eagle air-superiority fighters — which the Raptor is replacing and which has a perfect combat record of 101 victories with zero defeats — were sent up to “kill” a single Raptor. All six were shot down.

A bit of perspective is needed here. The Eagle is the most lethal air-superiority fighter in the US arsenal and its pilots are the best in the world.

One of those “aura” pilots I was talking about earlier is Lieutenant-Colonel Paul Huffman, the commander of the 64th Aggressor Squadron.

The Aggressors are the dogfighting experts of the US Air Force. In aerial combat training they act as the “enemy”. It’s their job to give the opposing fighter jocks a hard time. It’s also their job to “kill” them. A sort of baptism of fire — a wake-up call.

Huffman and his hot-shots were sent up against the Raptor. I’ll let him finish the story.

“We still joke about our missions against the Raptor, because they can be fairly boring.

“We fly to the [designated combat] range. Die. Go to the tanker [to refuel]. Go back out to the range. Die. Go back to the tanker. Go back out. Die. After the third time we go home.”

Same thing the next day, and the next.

As Huffman told Code One magazine, the 64th flew almost 300 sorties against the Raptors “and we never once got to merge [make visual contact] against a single Raptor”.

Another hard-assed air combat supremo, Lieutenant-Colonel Robert Garland, a former F-15 Eagle pilot and now a Raptor jockey, told Code One magazine: “Six adversaries provide a good workout for two F-15 Eagle pilots. But for two Raptors, defeating six adversaries is about as difficult as eating breakfast. We [Raptor pilots] don’t even break a sweat.”

So what is it that makes the R800-million Raptor so special? In a word, technology. Stealth technology in the main, supported by mighty engines with supercruise ability, thrust vectoring agility and integrated avionics.

What all this means is that you can’t see the damned thing. It can go faster than sound without afterburner flames coming out of its backside and it has nozzles at the rear that make it turn on a tickey.

It also flies higher, faster and further than any other fighter in the world and all its weapons are tucked away in bays in its stealth-faceted fuselage.

When needed, a variety of missiles pop out and scream off towards the hapless enemy, who has no clue that he has just seconds left to live.

The problem with the Raptor, for its enemies, is that it can’t be seen on radar. Opposing fighters rely on their radar to pick up bogeys, which they chase until they get a visual on the aircraft. Also, because the engines don’t have to use afterburners to go supersonic there is no telltale flame or smoke. And nothing for heat-seeking missiles to latch onto.

So how do you fight something you can’t see, fire at or out-turn? The short answer is: you don’t. You just die.

Now all this sounds like a lot of US hype so I asked a guy who is probably more qualified than anyone in South Africa to comment.

He’s Johannes “Blokkies” Joubert, Denel’s Gripen project test pilot for the past five years, a graduate of the International Test Pilot School in Britain, a former Mirage and Cheetah fighter pilot, and still an active combat pilot at 2 Squadron, Makhado Air Force Base.

“Look,” he says, “there is no doubt about it. It’s going to be a tough day at the office for any fighter pilot going up against the Raptor in an air-to-air scenario. It’s an awesome aircraft with incredible technology, even without the stealth factor.”

Joubert says the problem in duelling with the Raptor is that fighter pilots need to build a mental picture of the developing combat scenario as they approach each other.

“We rely on fighter controllers and our onboard radars to build this picture, but if you can’t pick up the enemy you can’t build the picture. Meanwhile, the Raptor pilot, with all his advanced control and command systems, is building a very precise picture and is planning his tactics. By the time you see the Raptor — if ever — it’s too late, you’ve lost the fight.”

But he doesn’t believe the Raptor is invincible. “If you do get a visual and he hasn’t already fired at you, some fourth-generation fighters will give the Raptor a good fight. And radars are improving all the time and could in the near future detect stealthy aircraft.”

“So,” I ask Joubert, “the first of the SAAF’s new Gripen fighters will be arriving in July. What if one day . . ?”

“Aah yes,” he leans back in his chair and looks at the ceiling. “You remember that tough day at the office I was talking about earlier...”

Tough day?

"I think a very short day".

 

[Cobra360]

Just one quote from that, ''it flies higher, faster and further than any other fighter in the world.'' Further yes, Flanker is a close second. Faster, now that depends on weather he is talking of top speed but we know or believe to know that it cannot brake M2 because of it's intakes. Height, well the Eagle's combat ceiling is 65k. The StreakEagle reached 92k for a few seconds. The Raptor's listed combat ceiling is 50k+, that + could be quite a lot higher.

[504 Wolverine]

Another mistake

 

In one such encounter, six F-15 Eagle air-superiority fighters — which the Raptor is replacing and which has a perfect combat record of 101 victories with zero defeats

 

The F-22 is NOT replacing the F-15 but will serve along side it and the F-16 for quite a long time (2040 IIRC)

[Fanboy2006]

That is the problem with reporters, the never seem to know what they are talking about!

 

To me the important parts are what the pilots have to say about the F22.

[Cobra360]

Another mistake

 

 

 

The F-22 is NOT replacing the F-15 but will serve along side it and the F-16 for quite a long time (2040 IIRC)

 

Yep, 100-150 Eagles are planned to stay frontline till 2030. The F-15E till 2040.

[GGTharos]

Just one quote from that, ''it flies higher, faster and further than any other fighter in the world.'' Further yes, Flanker is a close second. Faster, now that depends on weather he is talking of top speed but we know or believe to know that it cannot brake M2 because of it's intakes. Height, well the Eagle's combat ceiling is 65k. The StreakEagle reached 92k for a few seconds. The Raptor's listed combat ceiling is 50k+, that + could be quite a lot higher.

 

Faster yes, not from a top speed perspective, but from a cruising speed perspective. This thing right now outcruises every fighter out there barring perhaps the Typhoon, and anything equipped wiht the Russian AL-41 engines, IIRC.

[Fanboy2006]

Supercruise is a major advantage. Aparently the F22 can supercruise at Mach 1.5. So it can run circles around conventional engined fighters (Like the South African procured Gripen.).

[Shaman]

So it can run circles around conventional engined fighters

That's a bit too much said :doh:

[Fanboy2006]

WAH?

[britgliderpilot]

Wait - a poster named Fanboy posts a topic about the Raptor on a message board about a Russian flight sim and isn't greeted with instant death threats and massive flames?

 

 

Sigh . . . . . I miss the days of the Ubi Aviation Forum. *nostalgia*

[Fanboy2006]

The reason that I posted this thread is that some people think that the F22 is crap. And here you have the point of view of three diffirent pilots.

In my opinion, there are two bad things about the F22:

 

Firstly, the American politicians decided to buy to few of them.

Secondly, a very large part of the USAF buget is going into the F22 project. So other areas will suffer (Like Close Air Support.).

 

[Technically my two statements are contradictary.].

[britgliderpilot]

The reason that I posted this thread is that some people think that the F22 is crap. And here you have the point of view of three diffirent pilots.

In my opinion, there are two bad things about the F22:

 

Firstly, the American politicians decided to buy to few of them.

Secondly, a very large part of the USAF buget is going into the F22 project. So other areas will suffer (Like Close Air Support.).

 

[Technically my two statements are contradictary.].

 

Some people do, yep. Some people believe Aeronautics.ru's tales of Plasma Stealth, too ;)

 

 

CAS . . . . . . A-10C? F-35? SDBs?

CAS isn't being as abandoned as you might think - the F-15C doesn't have any kind of A2G role, while the F-22A does . . . . .

 

 

Numbers are all subjective. The aircraft will be put into service in smaller numbers than intended, since the primary threat it was designed to face is no longer in place.

 

The reports so far say it's really rather good at multiple-target engagements.

 

As long as nobody does something daft like destroy the tooling (unlikely), they can build more. While you can't do R&D/service introduction of a new fighter within the time range presented by a new threat emerging in world politics, you just might be able to re-open the production line in order to boost numbers of the jet as any threat becomes apparent ;)

[Fanboy2006]

By Fanboy I mean a LOMAC fanboy!

[Fanboy2006]

Britgliderpilot; I agrea, but I was thinking more in the line of A10 and Su25 tipe aircraft for CAS.

 

P.S. SBD Dauntless rocks!

[Cobra360]

F-22 can supercruise to M1.7

F-15C does have a latent A2G ability. It was only fully removed from USAF Eagles when the F-15E found its feet. Edwards AFB are going to start tests with the F-15C in the A2G role because the F-15C has very little work to do in wartime now and the USAF see it as a waste of money, today it's all about force multipliers.

 

@ Fanboy: it was SDB, small diameter bomb, the GBU-39.

[Fanboy2006]

"Fanboy: it was SDB, small diameter bomb, the GBU-39."

 

OOH! Sorry.

I have visited this site before but I have never posted. The reason that I chose Fanboy was because of the signiture of D-Scythe which I think is hilarious.

[S77th-GOYA]

It's fairly apparent that that article was written for people who don't know a damn thing about modern aerial combat.

[markriley]

I love it. The Raptor story that is. One more thing to add to the story. Durring testing at Red FLag, 4 Raptors took on a mix of 20 F-15s and F-16s, in the same set up as described above with the fight-refuel three times, with the Raptors score 60 kills to 0. Those pilots also said "we never even saw them" The SAMs were also consistantly destroyed without ever locking the F-22s.

[Fanboy2006]

"It's fairly apparent that that article was written for people who don't know a damn thing about modern aerial combat."

 

You might also have noticed that the reporter isn't realy unbiased in his/her opinions. ("Now all this sounds like a lot of US hype...").

So much for objectivity.

[Frostie]

Taking on and beating the best of the best and greatest of the blah blah, kind of reminds me of the 'World Series' sagas.:P

[Pilotasso]

Another mistake

 

 

 

The F-22 is NOT replacing the F-15 but will serve along side it and the F-16 for quite a long time (2040 IIRC)

 

Thats a negatory ace. The US has already delivered the last falcon last year, ant it will never last 35 years. The early block 5 have proven not to last this long and the same will be for the current block 52. But now that the production line in the US is to close there wont be any further new block standards to be built for the US service. The current fleet is going to dwindle down in numbers untill its phased out from service alltogether. They will be all gone in 20 years. This is why the JSF hasnt been cancelled by now. It needs to replace the F-16 or burst.

 

The same happens for the F-15. The max that will hapen are upgrades to existing aircraft but thery are still limited by their airframe service lives.

[D-Scythe]

The production F-22, the ones USAF fighter pilots are actually flying, supercruises at Mach 1.7-1.8. Pratt&Whitney beefed up the F119 some between the YF-22/23 competition until now.

 

Nothing comes close, barring some Russian Raptor-equivalent.

[Pilotasso]

if the russians ever mass export their new fighter wich is allegely in development, the F-16 and 15 are gonners in the US service quite fast, youll see. My country has plans to make the current fleet last untill only 2020, but thats us because theres no replacement being considered and economic restraints will keep it that way.

[bflagg]

Another mistake

 

The F-22 is NOT replacing the F-15 but will serve along side it and the F-16 for quite a long time (2040 IIRC)

 

Actually.. it is true.

The 22 was designed to replace the 15.. but until that time fully comes about,

the 15's role will be a tad different in light of the new reality the 22 brings about.

[Cobra360]

If the F-22 was cheaper it would replace the F-15 as they were delivered. The F-15 was also seen as expensive back in it's day, the USAF wanted to buy more than they could and served along with F-106s and F-4s for its first 20 years.