UH-1 Huey issue, please help

[deepdiver8055]

Here's what I wrote to support trying to get this straightened out....

If anyone has any ideas about this then please let me know.

 

========

 

Game mode and Sim mode on the UH-1

 

It works with the KA-50 and you can literally see the difference. When the KA-50 is using the Game setting and not the sim all the axis controls are limited and a lot easier to fly and the helicopter does not go all over the place. When the KA-50 is in Sim mode then it's very hard to control and there's all kinds of torque on the tail. I know this is how helicopters fly and they are not like RC models that have gyro's installed helping with torque and if I had a really good setup then this would be the way to fly but I have a lesser quality of joystick with a twist grip for rudder and it works fine on the KA-50 in game mode.

 

No matter what the settings are on the UH-1, it still flies wild and crazy like the KA-50 in Sim mode even though I select to use Game mode for the UH-1. There is no difference between the two versions (game and Sim) modes on the UH-1 and I can not fly the model this way with what I have right now.

 

The only reason I purchased it was because I knew it had these two different settings (game and Sim) modes so I figured it would fly like the KA-50 in game mode making things easier for me but it does not.

 

Yes, it is written into the config file but it's not using these settings at all. I know there's something not working right because other people had asked about it and are concerned about it on other forums and post so I know I'm not the only one with this problem.

 

So if this is how it is then what can we do about this because game mode flight is no different then the sim mode and I can not fly this thing. Believe me I wouldn't be wasting time on here writing you about this if it was working. I can't fly it!. And yes I have my setting correct for avionics and all the others. Again it works fine with the KS-50 but not the UH-1 in the same settings and there is no difference between these setting in the actual flying of the UH-1.

 

Thanks for your reply... I hope we can get this sorted out.

 

Alan

[0xDEADBEEF]

while i'm sorry i really cant help you with the game-mode issue, because i haven't touched it ever (like i guess 95% of the simmers here), i would strongly encourage you to get pedals, sit down and learn how to fly helicopters. it takes a little while to adjust your reflexes to what the chopper wants you to do, but once you have that, you're having the time of your life. And if you ever happen to get a ride on the co seat of a real helicopter with dual controls, you will have a fantastic time impressing the pilot. He will definitely not believe youre flying for the first time.

[Cibit]

I just tried and set game mode on and game avionics in options. Apart from getting a mini hud the flight model is similar if not identical. Still takes rudder inputs like the SIM version.

A suggestion for you is go to special tab in options and check rudder trim box. This will make things easier. The bigest difference between the huey and ka50 is the number of main rotors. KA50 is coaxial and so has very little torque generated compared to the waggletail huey.

 

Whatever your setup the huey is a twitchy bird. Persevere and trim lots, dont be afraid to ask questions if you need any help or tips:)

[deepdiver8055]

while i'm sorry i really cant help you with the game-mode issue, because i haven't touched it ever (like i guess 95% of the simmers here), i would strongly encourage you to get pedals, sit down and learn how to fly helicopters. it takes a little while to adjust your reflexes to what the chopper wants you to do, but once you have that, you're having the time of your life. And if you ever happen to get a ride on the co seat of a real helicopter with dual controls, you will have a fantastic time impressing the pilot. He will definitely not believe youre flying for the first time.

 

Actually I know how to fly heli's but I was just trying to get the game mode to work more like the physics in the KA-50 just to have a bit of fun so it's not so serious. Trying this for someone else actually.

 

I've been flying choppers for a long time now so this is nothing new and I'm not just talking about flying behind a computer either.

 

I just tried and set game mode on and game avionics in options. Apart from getting a mini hud the flight model is similar if not identical. Still takes rudder inputs like the SIM version.

A suggestion for you is go to special tab in options and check rudder trim box. This will make things easier. The bigest difference between the huey and ka50 is the number of main rotors. KA50 is coaxial and so has very little torque generated compared to the waggletail huey.

 

Whatever your setup the huey is a twitchy bird. Persevere and trim lots, dont be afraid to ask questions if you need any help or tips:)

 

Yeah I guess I was expecting it to be more like the KA-50 or the model called: Huey-X by Aerosoft for FSX... that's a nice one to fly in FSX.

 

Personally I think they made this Huey too unstable because I can tell you they really are not that unstable and you'll notice right off one can get into a nice hover with the real one.

 

The Huey flies very well and is actually very stable and close to how the old Bell 47 flies. Both are very stable platforms but yes you have to anticipate all helicopter's reactions as by nature they are an *out of control* machine. We are not in the cockpit to fly the Huey we are there to keep it from crashing so to speak but then flying is part of it also. Very similar to standing on a beach ball trying to balance yourself.

 

I was only referring to the gaming heli in the sim and for what I see as the face value of the heli and not real world.

 

The sim heli seems like there is no weight effect to it like it's made of paper based on how much it moves around and how unstable it appears in the sim... it's not like that in the real world... sorry but it's not.

 

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I'll dig into the physics myself and calm it down a bit since I'm an FSX Guru in all definitions of the word. These are no different just a bit of different language and you just have to find the sweet spot.

 

Cheers!

~A~

[msalama]

it's not like that in the real world... sorry but it's not.

 

I don't think flight dynamics modelling per se is to blame here, but our controllers.

 

As you know a common JS has no throw to speak of and as a result is very hard to control precisely, whereas a real cyclic is by nature more precise, being longer and thus inherently more controllable. We can't fight elementary physics here, the common joystick being what it is - and made of cheap plastic parts, too! - but what we CAN do is to apply an input curve to it since that at least _mimics_ how the real thing behaves near its midpoint.

 

This is how I have mine set up for pitch & roll both, gives me a nice and precise feel when hovering and making constant small corrections near the trimmed cyclic midpoint:

[JimTM]

deepdiver8055,

 

Like msalama, I find that a curve on all three of the Huey's axes helps with stability (I use curves of 10). The only time my flying gets a little messy is lifting off the ground. Sometimes, the skids will scrape a bit with rotation or the helicopter will drift a little. Do you find that the real one gives you some feedback on how much left pedal and collective to input to get a clean break with the ground?

 

Cheers!

 

Jim

[Yurgon]

Personally I think they made this Huey too unstable because I can tell you they really are not that unstable and you'll notice right off one can get into a nice hover with the real one.

 

I don't see any problem there. The DCS Huey is very easy to hover. Once you've spent like 200 hours or so in it. :D

 

Are you saying the real one is easy to hover for experienced helicopter pilots, or do you mean it's actually easy to hover for student pilots with virtually no experience? Also, which model?

 

I've read many complaints over the years by people with all kinds of prior experience (both sim and real life), but in the end most agreed that they had a completely exaggerated set of expectations, they had crappy input devices and were comparing apples with oranges.

 

Especially those with RL experience aren't used to looking for clues -- they feel the helicopter move before the eyes pick up the movement, thus reacting more intuitively. In the sim, the only way to transfer the sense of motion into the brain is the visual representation of movement, so if you fly RL helos, you probably have to re-train your brain in order to cope with the limitations of sim flight.

 

In the end most agreed that the UH-1H flight model is superb and mimics the real helicopter very closely. (And that comparing DCS UH-1H to anything in FSX was a bad idea in the first place, though I can't speak from personal experience there, my copy of FSX has never been installed, DCS has kept me way to busy :thumbup:).

 

On a side note, there are some aspects where the DCS UH-1H isn't modeled very well, for instance the engine will never overheat. But AFAIK the flight characteristics are mostly very much to the point.

[0xDEADBEEF]

the flightmodel of the huey is very good! its (in)stability is one of the best modeled parts of it. apart from the engine model (which is said to be fixed with a near future release). I've flown both sim and real helis, and agree with what yurgon said. Flying in the sim is a lot harder than in the real one, because you dont have motion sensing.

[Cibit]

Yurgon the egt etc are being modelled for a patch :)

Also my reference to the huey being twitchy wasn't a beef of flight model but I m sure most uh-1 drivers will know what I meant;)

Edited October 23, 2015 by Cibit

[Sporg]

Well, I agree with the others: It all depends a lot on your controls.

 

Went from unprecise joystick with twist rudder, to rudder pedals, precise throttle (for collective) and precise stick with extension.

There's a world of difference.

 

A proper precision setup with full size controls would probably be even better.

[deepdiver8055]

OK glad to see all your replies. For the most part it wasn't my joystick settings and yes I use curves and know all about setting those up. I actually dug into some of the files and fixed the issue. I'm currently loading a video right now so get the best headsets and speakers set up cause your gonna like this one. I'll post it here when it's done. I stayed up all night dedicated to this one and I did it.

 

One of the tech guys said there is a slight difference in the physics between sim mode and game mode... keep in mind that I'm not talking about the difference in the key strokes but rather the handling of the model based on the two modes but again I fixed all that and now I can fly totally in Sim mode and I do not have any game modes on which is also how I flew in the up coming video. I must hand it to myself on this one and say that this baby is really nice to fly now hehehe and it' sounds different too (wink) LOL Lets GET SOME!

[hansangb]

The one game changer I will add is the Oculus Rift. OMG! It's **SO** much easier to land and maneuver with Rift. So I can understand why it's so much easier to fly in the real helicopter (control wise) I thought TrackIR was a game changer. Not even *CLOSE*

 

While there are still some issues, with 1.5, the FreeFlight missions are a dream to fly. With other missions, the AI causes too much judder, but I'm hoping DCS can solve that soon.

 

PS: On the A10, watching a SAM come up at you and streak past *and* being able to track it is an INCREDIBLE feeling. W/O even realizing it, I yelled out "missile, missile, missile!" And when you twist your body to check six, you can't help but reach out to the cockpit to "grab" it so you can twist your body. LOL.

 

hsb

Edited October 24, 2015 by hansangb

[deepdiver8055]

Flying the BelSimTek / DCS UH-1 Huey to the live firing weapons range. In this video, we have orders for a day at the firing range for live fire exercises which my door gunners need practice.

 

Now LETS GET SOME!

 

Cheers!

~A~

 

If the video below won't start then use this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1uRbZU3Kk

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1uRbZU3Kk

Edited October 25, 2015 by deepdiver8055

[Rocky49]

Video does not work

[Sporg]

OK glad to see all your replies. For the most part it wasn't my joystick settings and yes I use curves and know all about setting those up. I actually dug into some of the files and fixed the issue. I'm currently loading a video right now so get the best headsets and speakers set up cause your gonna like this one. I'll post it here when it's done. I stayed up all night dedicated to this one and I did it.

 

One of the tech guys said there is a slight difference in the physics between sim mode and game mode... keep in mind that I'm not talking about the difference in the key strokes but rather the handling of the model based on the two modes but again I fixed all that and now I can fly totally in Sim mode and I do not have any game modes on which is also how I flew in the up coming video. I must hand it to myself on this one and say that this baby is really nice to fly now hehehe and it' sounds different too (wink) LOL Lets GET SOME!

 

Sounds nice and congrats. :)

 

Can you tell us more about what was the problem?

 

Always nice to know, and maybe it will save someone else some other time? :)

 

PS Good flying, I am nowhere near on my hover. :)

[msalama]

Can you tell us more about what was the problem?

 

+1

 

What did you do to get it fixed Deepdiver? Inquiring geezers want to know ;)

[deepdiver8055]

Hello folks!

Well I've been flying the KA-50 for a long time now and if you set it for GAME FLIGHT in the options (on or off) then the helicopter only has so much it will do and is limited. Like for instance, if in game mode under the GAMEPLAY Tab in the options screen and Game Flight Mode is checked then the Heli is limited in both Flight Axes and in Collective. It makes things a lot easier to fly for those who might have control problems or are just learning to fly heli's.

 

If the check box is Unchecked then it puts the helicopter in Full flight dynamics and characteristics like a real one right? and there's a HUGE difference between these two modes on the KA-50

 

=================

 

SO when I got the UH-1 I went to fly it and all of the sudden she was all over the place and I mean all over the place so I thought damn something must of happened to my joystick (Extreme 3D Pro) as the sim loaded so I checked my setting and they were the same as all my others setting which I set beforehand.

I set all my options for an aircraft before even loading it to fly it so my setting on the stick were correct as all the others so I know it wasn't the stick which later on I confirmed it by flying another aircraft so everything was working fine. My setting I use on all my DCS aircraft are: About 3 to 5 for the center play, 100 on X and Y Axes and set my curves to around 20 to 40 depending on the aircraft.

My Huey in the video you see in this thread is also set to these setting but I use around 35-40 on the curve settings just to ease the sensitivity for hovering.

 

=================

 

Well anyway... Since I couldn't get hold of the Rudder/Tail rotor with the Huey and having a really hard time trying to get it control my hover or in this case me having control I decided to put the model in GAMEPLAY just like you can for the KA-50 making it less sensitive and so that I could get around the block without crashing... I mean hell, I just want to fly a quick little circuit here since I just got the UH-1 so I figured I would take care of all the setting after that and set all my keystrokes and stuff like that right?... well that wasn't going to happen because after setting the Flight Mode to GAMEPLAY thinking it would allow me to at least fly it, that didn't do anything at all for the Flight Characteristics at all and it was still the same as if it was in Full Flight dynamics or if the Check Box was Unchecked for Game Flight Mode!.

 

===================

 

This is why I was pist off actually and thought well chit with my joystick and how sensitive this thing was in the sim I thought dam I just payed 50 for it but can't fly it now because the settings won't allow it.

 

So this is when I started digging in and I knew there has to be something somewhere to help me out here and there is actually... As you probably know that in FSX Simu you can go into any aircraft config file and set it's properties and set individual lines of data to change a model right? Well there has to be something for these aircraft as well. I mean it installs to your HDD and reads it's data from your HDD to fly so something has to be there that controls the flight data! somewhere.

 

SO I set out like any good UH-1 lover and put my nose to the grindstone and I found one little line of text that help me out in a way, Not like limiting the KA-50 though, but rather *Dampening* the controls input so that now I have control in the full *Game Flight Mode* and this is what your seeing in my video.

 

It does not limit the ranges of the Axes or the Collective by any means but it help with making things a little more *tame* if you will which therefore give one a much better control as you see in the video. Now you still need to practice of course and this won't fly it for you either but it does help wit hall the high torque issues as it has right off the bat... and I still thinks there's too much on this helicopter (model) in the sim compared to the real aircraft. I mean not a lot but it's enough to make a big difference for simming and taking away the enjoyment of an all around product so to speak.

 

=================

 

Anyway,... I edited the text in Both versions of DCS World (1.2 and the latest 1.5 Worlds) but the 1.5 is a little different, it still helps but it's a bit different then changing the same line in 1.2 as both versions have the same file and in the same location of each other's install directory.

 

So here's the the place to find it: I mean some might have discovered this already I'm sure but it doe's work and should help you out also if your nerves are about to blow out!. lol like mine was for a day or three.

 

=================

 

Go to your:

 

1) Eagle Dynamics directory

 

2) then go to your Mods FOLDER

 

3) then go into your UH-1 Aircraft FOLDER

 

4) Then go into the FM FOLDER

 

5) You should have one file in there named: FMOptions.lua

 

6) Copy that file and paste it back into the same folder your in (FM) so now you have the original and a copy of it that says: FMOptions - copy.lua

 

7) open this file with windows notepad or whatever you use to read *.lau files (notepad works fine) though.

 

8,) scroll down the listings of data and you'll see a line that reads:

pilothelper = false

 

9) Replace FALSE with TRUE so you should now have: pilothelper = true

 

This is the only thing I changed because, well it was common sense, hence the term *PilotHelper*? I wonder if they got this from Hamburger Helper? :megalol: maybe so because the way that thing spins around in it's original format it might throw you out of the cockpit and the tail rotor will come around around and turn you into Hamburger helper! :lol:

 

That's it, go try out your new config file!.

 

You can do the same for DCS World 1.5 as the file has the same exact data since the heli loads in both versions of World but for some reason changing this line in 1.5 make the helicopter act a little less helpful. I don't know why that is but it's still easier to fly. Weird.

 

AGAIN keep in mind, changing this line does not make the helicopter fly like the KA-50 In game mode either, you still have to have plenty of control and be on your toes but it does make it easier to handle especially if you have a lesser quality of joystick or so.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Oh and Belsimtek?? I'll send you an invoice for this one LOL none the less... THANK YOU for a wonderful helicopter model. Man I wish you would make a Cobra!, what a team that would make for missions!

 

~~PS, anyone know if there's an Paintkit out there for the UH-1? I must have one of those as you can see in my signature link I like to paint too.

 

 

===============================

 

Here's the listing inside the FMOptions.lua file after opening it and what it looks like: (I did not list the entire contents since this is payware)

 

PilotHelperOn = true -- ïîìîùíèê â óïðàâëåíèè

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2015 by deepdiver8055

[Cibit]

Couple of things worth noting.

Always use Notepad ++ when editing LUA files

https://notepad-plus-plus.org/

 

For external views on the video left Cntl +Y x2 will remove the info bar at the bottom of the screen.

 

To post video click youtube icon and just copy everything after the = sign

 

 

:)

[deepdiver8055]

OK Thanks for the info Cibit! Yeah I was using the whole link between the [ ] and then taking out the letter S in the https text before the link. SOme sites use that technique.

 

Also why should you use notepad + + for those files? does it read all the text and not just English?? I never used it so I don't know anything about it but I'll give it a go.

 

Thanks for fixing my video too, appreciate it.

 

Cheers!

~A~

[hansangb]

Deepdiver, Windows Notepad is fine as well. It's a text only editor. Lot of people use Wordpad or word, and that embeds binary codes that rich text editors can use. So for DCS, only us a *text editor"

 

Notepad++ is a good option. But honestly, there are a zillion of them out there. For what it's worth, my preferences are VIM and Ultraedit.

 

 

And nice flying! Love the twin door gunner action.

 

hsb

Edited October 24, 2015 by hansangb

[Sporg]

As I understand you should not use Windows Notepad either.

It has some features or limitations that apparently risk corrupting coding files like *.lua etc.

 

That is the reason you should use Notepad++ or similar.

 

About editing the FM.lua, just be aware that it can limit your abilities to fly online.

Reason is that some of the servers do integrity check in a aircraft files before they let you in, in order to fight cheating.

[Cibit]

For as long as I can remember with Eagle Dynamics the preferred lua editor has been notepad + +

Obviously use whatever suits but for standardization I recommend it:thumbup:

[Yurgon]

IIRC, Windows Notepad used to ignore the file encoding and would save files in a different encoding, which would be fine as long as it's only basic ASCII (A-Z, 0-9, and a few common special characters), but if the file contained for instance Russian text, this would now be badly encoded and could corrupt the entire file.

 

Personally, I never had that problem, though, so I'm not sure if it's a thing of the past or if it depends on the file. In any case, with Notepad++ you're on the safe side, although some of its presets drive me nuts (like the HOME and END behavior, among others).

[deepdiver8055]

Thanks for the comments on the video and all the other feedback as well. One other thing I noticed and was wondering if anyone else has this issue or whatever it may be... when your in the sim and you go to into the options and select the controller tab I've notice that if I change from Sim to Game controls that it stays on SIm controls and doesn't change to the other. Anyone else see this?

[deepdiver8055]

Cibit... I tried posting that vid to another section in the belsimtek thread and copying only the text after the = sign between the youtube brackets but it still won't run. Never had a hard time with posting vids before. Oh well not worried about right now. Thanks.