eekz Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Plane get's AoA is locked to 36.0 degrees. Speed, AoA and G values have strange correlation Also video: [ame] [/ame] Edited November 22, 2015 by eekz Куплю B-17, можно B-24. B-29 не предлагать! Burning Skies =Burning Skies= @ Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 What's the problem exactly? You do know how the MiG-21bis is supposed to stall, right? 28 degrees AoA is considered safe at any speed and altitude. 33 degrees is the critical AoA. If you go there you will stall, and might even go into a spin. It doesn't recover from the stall by itself. You have to actively use stick inputs to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekz Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 What's the problem exactly? Watch the video Куплю B-17, можно B-24. B-29 не предлагать! Burning Skies =Burning Skies= @ Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Watch the video That's how it's supposed to work. Not a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekz Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) That's how it's supposed to work. Not a bug. Lol. I'd rather hear from developers, but not a person who can't see that there is an obvious 36.0 AoA trap in dynamics where the plane gets with strange oscillation (0:05 - 0:11) and it's locked to 36.0 during all stall process, not mater the stick position. Also, how it can be that in the screenshot the plane has 500+ IAS, 36 deg AoA and only 1.3 G? If it's supposed to work like that any aerodynamically based explanation is welcome :) Edited November 22, 2015 by eekz Куплю B-17, можно B-24. B-29 не предлагать! Burning Skies =Burning Skies= @ Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest =YeS=CMF Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 What's the problem exactly? You do know how the MiG-21bis is supposed to stall, right? 28 degrees AoA is considered safe at any speed and altitude. 33 degrees is the critical AoA. If you go there you will stall, and might even go into a spin. It doesn't recover from the stall by itself. You have to actively use stick inputs to recover. Real plane dont lock AoA like this one in the video. MiG-21bis has another stall and spin behavior, read documents. That's how it's supposed to work. Not a bug. Yes, it is a bug. Or simply not advanced flight model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShot Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) What's the problem exactly? You do know how the MiG-21bis is supposed to stall, right? 28 degrees AoA is considered safe at any speed and altitude. 33 degrees is the critical AoA. If you go there you will stall, and might even go into a spin. It doesn't recover from the stall by itself. You have to actively use stick inputs to recover. Yes it's suppose to stall, yes very high AoA is dangerous and will result in to very bad things. But the problem here with FM at least my opinion is that it should be may result and not like it's now, instantly hit that critical AoA and your in a crazy spin. From the manual quote: "Critical AoA is 33°, which - if exceeded - will cause a stall, possibly followed by spin." Keyword here is the "possibly" and not "instantly" like it's now. Edited November 22, 2015 by RedShot [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://dcsfinland.fi Suomalainen DCS Yhteisö Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Anyone thought, that indicated AoA is not the same as the aircraft AoA it is local and is pretty much higher, than the aircraft general AoA? So it cannot be the same on F2 view (general AoA) and cockpit indicator. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer86 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Plane get's AoA is locked to 36.0 degrees. Speed, AoA and G values have strange correlation it feels and looks like a kind of suspension effect. it happens with all directions at critical aoa degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Hrothgar Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I've noticed it too and it is my only complaint about the FM. Overall it is a very good FM I think, but that AoA locking is clearly incorrect. I have a B.S. in Physics and though my knowledge of aeronautical engineering is limited, I can say with absolute certainty that that particular aspect of the flight model is wrong. How? It violates Newton's first, second and third laws of motion at the same time on a qualitative level, never mind quantitative. Hopefully it gets fixed. I have noticed smaller changes to the FM in the various updates along with 1.5. So they are working on it still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theropod Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) yes, that behaviour has been noticable since Dcs 1.5 released. that feels like rebound but controllable with rudders. pushing hard the stick forward causes to exit from that situation but aircraft suddenly gains much more speed, is that normal? Edited November 22, 2015 by theropod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 that feels like rebound but controllable with rudders. Real operational manual tells you not to apply rudder during stall, becouse that will put you into a spin. I believe this also happens in DCS if you apply enough rudder. pushing hard the stick forward causes to exit from that situation but aircraft suddenly gains much more speed, is that normal? Are you looking at the IAS gauge in the cockpit? I guess that might not show correct speed at high AoA because the airflow will hit the pitot tube at an angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theropod Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Real operational manual tells you not to apply rudder during stall, becouse that will put you into a spin. I believe this also happens in DCS if you apply enough rudder. Are you looking at the IAS gauge in the cockpit? I guess that might not show correct speed at high AoA because the airflow will hit the pitot tube at an angle. brisse, thank for your reply! i can keep my position with opposite rudder and power, that can prevent entering spin but not always. thank for the information about pitot tube the main question is the critical aoa effect feels like rebounding on a surface. is that behaviour normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 the main question is the critical aoa effect feels like rebounding on a surface. is that behaviour normal? I thought it was normal, but others are saying it's not. I checked in operational manual and there it says to immediately move the stick to neutral to recover, but in the sim that doesn't seem to be enough. In DCS you actually have to push a little bit forward to get out of the stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theropod Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I thought it was normal, but others are saying it's not. I checked in operational manual and there it says to immediately move the stick to neutral to recover, but in the sim that doesn't seem to be enough. In DCS you actually have to push a little bit forward to get out of the stall. thanks! all wip:) i hope devs can give the correct information about the rebound effect. it occurs on every position, no matter if you climb turn or dive, it happens same for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin887 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thank you for your report. AoA indicated at maximum 35 degrees. External view shows global AoA 36. Local AoA is around 45. Aircraft behavior near critical and on supercritical AoA will be improved and available in the next patch. Power through superb knowledge, training and teamwork. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thank you Dolphin. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShot Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Thanks for respond Dolphin. Just wanted to share this short video. feXa6SE8pPc [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://dcsfinland.fi Suomalainen DCS Yhteisö Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theropod Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Thank you for your report. AoA indicated at maximum 35 degrees. External view shows global AoA 36. Local AoA is around 45. Aircraft behavior near critical and on supercritical AoA will be improved and available in the next patch. thank you for reply dolphin, good to know that has reported Thanks for respond Dolphin. Just wanted to share this short video. feXa6SE8pPc i noticed the same and the same roll happened for me as free fall situation. i lost my engine while climbing and my aircraft begin fall from higher altitudes to the ground with that motion. no position has changed while falling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59th_Reaper Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Thanks for respond Dolphin. Just wanted to share this short video. feXa6SE8pPc I think it's not bug. MiG-21's (and the F-104 too) problem at high speed, that's called "own spin". It's a very dangerous flight situation, when u make a very fast roll (more than 90 degrees in a moment). In real life, the only possible solution (if you have altitude) is the using of pedals... Edited November 24, 2015 by 59th_Reaper Two tails, two engines! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Well, the bug is that you are getting G-loc within 0.5s of the onset of the inertial rotation. Edited November 25, 2015 by Golo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59th_Reaper Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well, the bug is that you are getting G-loc within 0.5s of the onset of the inertial rotation. Yes, that's a bug! :) Two tails, two engines! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) That's realistic???!! So starting a hard right roll will lead into an unrecoverable roll (look at the stick movement) despite the stick being returned to neutral, with no slowdown of momentum? What would happen if the pilot pushed the stick full left, it wouldn't slow down the roll? Edited November 25, 2015 by OnlyforDCS Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekz Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Aircraft behavior near critical and on supercritical AoA will be improved and available in the next patch. Thanks for communication! It's much appreciated! Looking forward for improvements:thumbup: Куплю B-17, можно B-24. B-29 не предлагать! Burning Skies =Burning Skies= @ Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domini99 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Thanks for respond Dolphin. Just wanted to share this short video. feXa6SE8pPc The issue is, when you get G-locked the pilot keeps forcing the stick fully into the corner. I don't know, but in real life when you lose consciousness I think you will let go of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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