Combat Steering Mode?

[Tibet]

Does the SU-27s posses this ability?

 

 

I have taken advantage of it in the SU-25t and SU-33 however it seems to not work in the SU-27s.

 

 

Is this intended?

[winchesterdelta1]

Never heard of this. What is combat steering mode?

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Combat Steering Mode is when you activate your autopilot ( A in the 25/27/33 if i remember correctly) and the autopilot will set you up on the best intercept course to your target in BVR mode. Note that should you lose contact on scope the autopilot will revert to emergency level flight mode which will hold alt att roll and yaw. The same function is in the 25. When you activate either your LLTV ELINT or TV the autopilot will bring you to level flight hold in the direction of your sensor point. If you move your crosshairs the AP will adjust course with it. I find it really usefull for CCRP as it will hold you on a nice steady level straight course to release.

[winchesterdelta1]

Cool never knew this. Thank you.

[bolek]

As far as I can tell, in Su-25 it will only steer you directly towards the target. It's not going to compute "best intercept course". But I think even this is not implemented in Su-27 (I don't know if the real aircraft has it or not).

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

yes for the frog T it will only steer you in the direction of your sensor point either with the tv's elint or ccrp modes in the horizontal only. The 27/ 33 will maneuver the aircraft in all planes as well as manage throttle and board. Testing it i find if the target is locked you are on his front 3-9 line then it will maneuver you to his 3 or 9 aspect. If you are behind his 3-9 line it will maneuver you to his rear aspect for a shot. In EO using your IRST sensor it will not calculate aspect angle and will simple steer you directly to the target and not set you up on any missile intercept course, basically you are the missile in this case lol.

[rrohde]

Thanks Ober, that was very insightful info! And, it matches your signature, too - "Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane" :thumbup:

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

If everyone read Tha manuals there would be 50 percent less topics. But then again there wouldn't be anything for me to do whilst I sit at work.

 

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[rrohde]

"Reading a manual" and "actively reading, understanding, and implementing the content of such manual" are two different things, though. ;)

 

So getting answers on specific questions like shown above is really useful.

[Ironhand]

AFAIK, the Combat Steering Mode is only valid for the Su-25T because the mode is tied to the Shkval. That it's available in any form in other aircraft is, I think, an error. Only the Su-25T manual defines it. It is not referenced at all in any other manual except the generic FC3 Flight manual and only, again, for the Su-25T.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Actually defined in manual for 27 as well and functions as described.

 

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[Tibet]

Actually defined in manual for 27 as well and functions as described.

 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

 

Could you clarify what exactly your combat steering is doing. Is it just working for intercepts or is it working for CCRP bombing as well?

[Ironhand]

Actually defined in manual for 27 as well and functions as described.

 

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Could you point out which page? I don't see it anywhere under the ACS or elsewhere. This, of course, assumes that we are talking about the DCS Su-27 Manual.

 

Automatic Control System (ACS)

ACS provides:

 

• Autostabilization of pitch/bank and barometric altitude

• Automatic leveling of the aircraft in roll and pitch

• Stabilization of absolute altitude in accordance to the radar altimeter at altitudes between 100-1000 m, with automatic ground collision avoidance

• Automatic control of climbing and descending

• Automatic control in the horizontal plane in accordance with data from the navigation system during enroute navigation mode

• Automatic return to the programmed airfield and landing approach down to the altitude of 50-60 m in accordance with input from the navigation system

 

Actuators of the fly-by-wire system and trim mechanisms are used as actuators of the automatic control system (there are no separate ACS actuators).

 

Before turning on the ACS, the aircraft should trim (except for the "Level up to the Horizon" - "Приведение к горизонту" mode). Deflection of the controls of more than 20% during the ACS operation (or excess of pitch/bank angles of 80 degrees) disables ACS and places it in Manual Control mode (except for the Level up to the Horizon) as the annunciator on the left part of the main cockpit panel indicates. In this case, one should reset ACS by the "СБРОС" (RESET) pushbutton [Alt -9].

 

The ACS modes are controlled by push-light switches on the left console.

 

The push-light switch “АВТОМ” (AUTO) will activate when any of the ACS modes (combined with other push-light switches) is enabled. If this push-light switch is off, it means that the ACS is inactive. If this push-light switch is the only one on, it means the attitude hold mode of the aircraft is active.

 

To control the ACS, the following commands are used:

 

[A] – Switches on the route following and barometric altitude stabilization modes. When the ACS is active, this command pushes the "СБРОС" (RESET) button switching off any current mode including the "УПРАВЛЯЙ ВРУЧНУЮ" (MANUAL CONTROL) mode and "УВОД НА ВЫСОТУ" (GROUND COLLISION AVOIDANCE MODE).

 

[H] – Switches on barometric altitude stabilization mode. This is only possible when the bank angle is less than 8 degrees and the heading is stabilized.

 

[LAlt-1] – Switches on the attitude hold mode (push-light switch "АВТОМ" is on) if the bank angle is less than 8 degrees and the heading is stabilized.

 

[LAlt -2] – An alternative command to enable barometric altitude stabilization.

 

[LAlt -3] – Level to the horizon. In this mode, the ACS is not switched off by control stick overriding and it has no pitch and bank angle limits. If this mode is on, the push-light switch "ПРИВЕД К ГОРИЗ" (Level up to the horizon) is on in the lower right portion of the front cockpit panel.

 

[LAlt -4] – An alternative command to enable barometric altitude stabilization. Same as [H].

 

[LAlt -5] – Switches on the radar altitude stabilization mode at altitudes between 300 to 1000m. At a radar altitude of less than 50 meters or vertical velocity of more than -15 m/s, the "УВОД НА ВЫСОТУ" (GROUND COLLISION AVOIDANCE MODE) mode is engaged automatically the bank angle is zeroized and attain positive pitch using a g-load of up to 4 units.

 

[LAlt -6] – Switches on the route following modes. Simultaneously, the pitch is stabilized based the value at mode initiation is used.

 

[LAlt -9] –Pushing the "СБРОС" (RESET) button switching off any current mode, including the "УПРАВЛЯЙ ВРУЧНУЮ" (MANUAL CONTROL) mode and "УВОД НА ВЫСОТУ" (GROUND COLLISION AVOIDANCE MODE). It also resets an ACS failure.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Ironhand

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

I don't have access to it in English. I was only told about bit whilst my friend read it out in Russian way back when 2 or 3 years ago when we were both learning the craft. Maybe there have been changes made since then but I distinctly remember the event because we were both like huh? AND THEN OH

 

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[Ironhand]

I don't have access to it in English. I was only told about bit whilst my friend read it out in Russian way back when 2 or 3 years ago when we were both learning the craft. Maybe there have been changes made since then but I distinctly remember the event because we were both like huh? AND THEN OH

 

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Ahhh... OK. Now I understand. Perhaps the two versions of the manuals are different? I was very involved with FC1.x and never saw that mode for the Su-27. Back then it was only documented for the Su-25T as it remains today. I skipped FC2 which I think is the period you're referring to. But regardless, since it is a mode tied specifically to the Shkval, it shouldn't be active in any other aircraft.

 

OTOH, next time I'm in the cockpit, I'll give it a try. Sounds like fun. :)

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Yeah can't remember. Yeah do it in Single missions and make sure you know A is autopilot and LALT9 is disengage. Got that wrong once.....ONCE

 

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[bolek]

I found Russian FC2 manual here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/download.php?iblock_id=1&id=244403&goto=%2Fupload%2Fiblock%2F827%2FLOCKON_FC2_Flight_Manual_RU.rar

 

My Russian is extremely rusty but as far as I can tell the combat steering mode is mentioned only under Su-25T, on page 64.

 

Режим "Боевое применение" - АУ-МАРШР-КВ. Включается клавишей [А] или [LAlt-6] при наличии информации о сопровождаемой цели (или точке на земной поверхности) от комплекса "Шквал". В этом режиме автопилот управляет по крену так, чтобы вектор скорости самолета совпадал с направлением на захваченную цель (точку). В канале тангажа осуществляется стабилизация барометрической высоты на момент включения режима. При включении режима "Коррекция" АУ-МАРШР (зажатии гашетки САУ на РУС – [LAlt-~]) летчик может управлять самолетом в канале тангажа. При этом управление по крену осуществляется автопилотом. После отключения режима "Коррекция" (отжатии гашетки САУ - [LAlt-~]), автопилот возвращает самолет на исходную высоту, заданную при включении режима "Боевое применение".

This says pretty much the same thing as what the current Su-25T english manual says on page 19.

 

I also tried some simple tests in Su-27 in 1.5.2 and I couldn't get it to do anything remotely resembling what Oberfeldwebel described. But maybe I was doing something wrong? What are the conditions? Lock the target and hit 'A'? As far as I could tell autopilot behaved the same way regardless if I had any target locked or not. I agree that this functionality is probably not there anymore, nor should it be.

[Ironhand]

I found Russian FC2 manual here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/download.php?iblock_id=1&id=244403&goto=%2Fupload%2Fiblock%2F827%2FLOCKON_FC2_Flight_Manual_RU.rar

 

My Russian is extremely rusty but as far as I can tell the combat steering mode is mentioned only under Su-25T, on page 64.

 

This says pretty much the same thing as what the current Su-25T english manual says on page 19.

 

I also tried some simple tests in Su-27 in 1.5.2 and I couldn't get it to do anything remotely resembling what Oberfeldwebel described. But maybe I was doing something wrong? What are the conditions? Lock the target and hit 'A'? As far as I could tell autopilot behaved the same way regardless if I had any target locked or not. I agree that this functionality is probably not there anymore, nor should it be.

Yes. It's saying much the same thing and, again, in reference to the Su-25T.

 

I tried it in the Su-27, setting up the mission a few different ways with waypoints set making it easy to tell if the system was flying according to radar tracking position or according to the Nav waypoints. In each case, it was flying the waypoints for both the "A" and "LAlt=6" commands. The other commands did what they were supposed to do as well throughout. So, if it was there, it's been removed.

[Tibet]

So I guess I have to ask was this changed to better reflect real life capabilities of the aircraft or is the system broken? If it happens to be changed to better reflect real life does that mean the SU-33 will be losing the ability when it's updated?

 

 

If there is a chance of an official response that would be great

Edited December 19, 2015 by Tibet
Typo

[karambiatos]

So I guess I have to ask was this changed to better reflect real life capabilities of the aircraft or is the system broken? If it happens to be changed to better reflect real life does that mean the SU-33 will be losing the ability when it's updated?

 

 

If there is a chance of an official response that would be great

 

I don't know, but to me the autopilots as a whole are running sub par, especially the landing autopilot, which is assured to cause a crater infront of the airfield.

[Ironhand]

So I guess I have to ask was this changed to better reflect real life capabilities of the aircraft or is the system broken? If it happens to be changed to better reflect real life does that mean the SU-33 will be losing the ability when it's updated?

 

 

If there is a chance of an official response that would be great

Well, the Su-33 doesn't have it now. So there's nothing to remove--at least not in 1.5.2. And I'm not sure it ever has had it. The Su-25T does because the system exists with that autopilot function ties to the Shkval to minimize pilot workload during the A2G targeting phase.

 

EDIT: Just checked 1.2 and it doesn't seem to exist there either.

 

Tibet,

 

Since you seem to have used it recently, what key command were you using in the Su-33 and what version of the sim were you using? Can you use it in any mission or only certain ones? etc. I'm really curious how it was that you got the behavior to happen.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Ironhand

[Tibet]

Sure thing, I'll give you a quick run down on what I am doing / how to replicate.

 

 

 

To start off I am flying via a keyboard and mouse atm. My HUD is also set to english via the avionics language setting in game.

 

 

 

Su-33: with some kind of free fall bomb / cluster bomb (EX: RBK or FAB series). Start position doesn't matter... could be from the runway, ramp hot / cold, a carrier... it works no matter how I start

 

 

 

Before entering air to ground mode make sure you have no mode selected in navigation HUD mode. Keep clicking the number 1 (Not num pad 1) until nothing appears in the bottom left of the HUD. If it says ENR, RTN, or LNDG you need to keep clicking the number 1.

 

 

 

Go to air to ground mode via the number 7 (Not num pad 7). Make sure your have one of the previously mentioned weapons selected.

 

 

 

Use the on HUD "piper" to select a point on the ground, can be an actual target or an empty space. Once the "piper" is on the target hold down the space bar... A diamond should appear on the over our target signifying you are now in CCRP mode.

 

 

 

This is very important, make sure you continue to hold down the space bar or your will loss your target. Well doing so activate Combat Steering mode via Left ALT + 6. Your aircraft should now be flying wings level towards the assigned target.

 

 

 

Continue holding space bar, once at the drop point you will hear the "predrop tone"... the weapon will be released. At this point your aircraft should enter wings level flight ACS mode. It is up to you how to proceed at this point.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Tibet

[Ironhand]

...

This is very important, make sure you continue to hold down the space bar or your will loss your target. Well doing so activate Combat Steering mode via Left ALT + 6. Your aircraft should now be flying wings level towards the assigned target...

Thanks for taking the time to put down the instructions. But, unless I'm missing something, this simply puts you wings level and does not steer you as in the Su-25T. At least it didn't when I tried it as you instructed. If I offset the diamond on the HUD before engaged the AP, the course remained uncorrected. I simply flew wings level on the altered courseline. Does it work differently for you?

[Tibet]

LOL if that's the case than this is a little embarrassing... thanks for all the help figuring out was going on.

[Ironhand]

:) No problem. I've been there often enough myself.

 

Besides, it's always fun trying to figure it out.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ironhand