Mirage Round-table- Discussions, tactics, videos

[ttaylor0024]

I feel like it would be good for everyone to have one location to go to in order to discuss A2A tactics in the Mirage. With this aircraft proving to be a force in DCS, it's only fitting we share experiences to sharpen the edge.

 

Feel free to post your accomplishments from online game-play, comment, and discuss.

 

I'll start.

 

 

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R8s3wVCY4Hw

Edited January 2, 2016 by ttaylor0024

[jojo]

Good idea.

 

First video

1- too bad you shot your first Super 530 in PID/ TWS, this is why it didn't guide, but you probably figured it out.

2- gun : wingspan setting, Vs MiG 21 set it to minimum 7m. So it will help you to estimate range without radar (on gun snake bigger - is 300m, smaller - is 600m)

3- Gun fight: you spend a lot of time with full aft stick, so you can't regain energy. Turn on the circle with your target to close in, instead of trying to turn inside his turn constantly by tracking him in HUD.

To do that, keep him just over or under canopy bow, and close in.

When you're in good range you can pull more AoA to achieve firing solution.

 

M-2000 essentially bleed speed over 15° AoA. If you stay there you can't regain energy, you need to unload from time to time.

 

I hope it will help :thumbup:

[ttaylor0024]

Good idea.

 

First video

1- too bad you shot your first Super 530 in PID/ TWS, this is why it didn't guide, but you probably figured it out.

2- gun : wingspan setting, Vs MiG 21 set it to minimum 7m. So it will help you to estimate range without radar (on gun snake bigger - is 300m, smaller - is 600m)

3- Gun fight: you spend a lot of time with full aft stick, so you can't regain energy. Turn on the circle with your target to close in, instead of trying to turn inside his turn constantly by tracking him in HUD.

To do that, keep him just over or under canopy bow, and close in.

When you're in good range you can pull more AoA to achieve firing solution.

 

M-2000 essentially bleed speed over 15° AoA. If you stay there you can't regain energy, you need to unload from time to time.

 

I hope it will help :thumbup:

 

 

Knew it right when I shot it. I usually don't lock MiG-21s till I know I'm within range as to not tip them off. Sometimes I switch it up and lock up one if there's a group to get them scrambling apart from each-other.

 

Didn't have too much time to set in the wingspan selector, so I clicked it a few times in the middle of the fight. It should probably be a before takeoff or fence in item, but once I lost my radar I actually had to use it. Didn't know the setting for the MiG anyway though, so that will help for next time! :thumbup:

 

The high AOA of the dogfight was on purpose. After I took the couple bullets from the MiG it actually shot off the nosecone somehow, which causes crazy drag. Knowing my radar was gone I figured this was the case. Since I wouldn't have much acceleration or top end speed I simply tried to shadow his movements and wait for his mistake, which eventually came to be when he went vertical and stalled.

[jojo]

Ok, good kills then :thumbup:

 

The tip may be useful for someone else...

[ttaylor0024]

Ok, good kills then :thumbup:

 

The tip may be useful for someone else...

 

For sure, there's more than my way to get the job done

[Voodooflies]

I feel like it would be good for everyone to have one location to go to in order to discuss A2A tactics in the Mirage. With this aircraft proving to be a force in DCS, it's only fitting we share experiences to sharpen the edge.

 

Feel free to post your accomplishments from online game-play, comment, and discuss.

 

I'll start.

 

 

Too bad that you launched fox 1 while PID. Nice skills, finally someone with a nice dose of SA who knows how to fly this beauty. Good job, frenchies approved this !

Edited January 3, 2016 by Sacha

[ttaylor0024]

Too bad that you launched fox 1 while PID. Nice skills, finally someone with a nice dose of SA who knows how to fly this beauty. Good job, frenchies approved this !

 

Yeah, it definitely is a shame, but it made for a more entertaining video when I was out of missiles! I thought about taking that part out but figured others could learn from the mistake.

 

Now, this thread isn't just about me, let's get some discussion and new material in here

[Hook47]

Good videos, good flying.

 

5:14 on the first one, the Pilot of that MiG 21 lost it. You can tell he has over controlled and put it into the elevator stall state where you basically have to go full stuck and power back to break out of it, and he was way too low at that point.

[ttaylor0024]

Good videos, good flying.

 

5:14 on the first one, the Pilot of that MiG 21 lost it. You can tell he has over controlled and put it into the elevator stall state where you basically have to go full stuck and power back to break out of it, and he was way too low at that point.

 

Yeah, I was already around 220kts when I saw him, so I immediately tried to force the overshoot by pulling hard up to decrease speed from AOA and altitude, then saw him overshooting so I just rolled into position. it really demonstrates how useful FBW is, because the Mig is just so hard to control when it gets that slow.

[Jugdriver]

How are you getting that Boresight lock to work with the 530?

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[ttaylor0024]

How are you getting that Boresight lock to work with the 530?

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

I was in close combat mode, got the lock, and then switched to the 530. I have that weapon store button mapped to my HOTAS.

 

 

 

Also, if you're in close combat mode and DO NOT get a lock, yet select 530s it will still be in CC mode for some reason. Pretty sure this is a bug, as it's not supposed to be able to work with the 530

[Nerd1000]

You got very, very lucky with that MiG at 5:00 on the first video. If he'd had a R-60 or better luck with guns you would have bought it for sure.

 

I think that little clip also demonstrates a big advantage of the mirage in close combat, namely its excellent roll rate. I bet you could shake most attackers with a rolling scissors, assuming of course your foe is too close for an effective missile shot.

[ttaylor0024]

You got very, very lucky with that MiG at 5:00 on the first video. If he'd had a R-60 or better luck with guns you would have bought it for sure.

 

I think that little clip also demonstrates a big advantage of the mirage in close combat, namely its excellent roll rate. I bet you could shake most attackers with a rolling scissors, assuming of course your foe is too close for an effective missile shot.

 

Yeah, a little luck is usually involved, and needed in situations like this where he came out of nowhere!

 

The roll rate is great, especially combined with the high amounts of AOA you can pull at low speeds that kill speed. Pair those up with the high thrust-to-weight and you can fly at speeds the MiG simply cannot. It works great on the other end of the spectrum as well, chased down a MiG at 45k that was flying mach 2.

[Jugdriver]

I was in close combat mode, got the lock, and then switched to the 530. I have that weapon store button mapped to my HOTAS.

 

 

 

Also, if you're in close combat mode and DO NOT get a lock, yet select 530s it will still be in CC mode for some reason. Pretty sure this is a bug, as it's not supposed to be able to work with the 530

 

RGR I have been doing it the same way, but I dont have the 530 mapped yet so I am much slower to lock and fire.

 

Any luck with 530 shots other than head on? So far I can just hit head on targets.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

Edited January 4, 2016 by Jugdriver

[Hook47]

Yeah, a little luck is usually involved, and needed in situations like this where he came out of nowhere!

 

The roll rate is great, especially combined with the high amounts of AOA you can pull at low speeds that kill speed. Pair those up with the high thrust-to-weight and you can fly at speeds the MiG simply cannot. It works great on the other end of the spectrum as well, chased down a MiG at 45k that was flying mach 2.

 

Yea that is pretty sketch. The top speed of the MiG 21 and M-2000C should permit for a MiG getting run down too quickly at that altitude. I would blame that on the unrealistic engine sim that I think is getting fixed next patch. The MiG 21 should actually be able to out perform the M-2000 TWW ratio while in Emergency after burner as well, and right now it cannot outperform in this state, which means the M-2000 has a TWW ratio of over 1.12! This is too high.

[ttaylor0024]

RGR I have been doing it the same way, but I dont have the 530 mapped yet so I am much slower to lock and fire.

 

Any luck with 530 shots other than head on? So far I can just hit head on targets.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

I've had luck with it, you just have to be within 3 miles, even closer if he wants to maneuver. It's more the missile model in DCS there being incorrect.

 

Yea that is pretty sketch. The top speed of the MiG 21 and M-2000C should permit for a MiG getting run down too quickly at that altitude. I would blame that on the unrealistic engine sim that I think is getting fixed next patch. The MiG 21 should actually be able to out perform the M-2000 TWW ratio while in Emergency after burner as well, and right now it cannot outperform in this state, which means the M-2000 has a TWW ratio of over 1.12! This is too high.

 

When I leveled off behind him I was only 7.5 miles back, and lost some distance until I was able to get up to mach 2.2. Way too much gas for one kill, but I was committed at that point!

[ttaylor0024]

p2aIUt5kMEI

 

Why you want to maintain SA. I was initially looking to rejoin the fight about 15 miles away after getting 4 quick missile kills and still having 2300kg fuel left, then I saw an RWR spike and looked at him right as he shot. A couple of defeated missiles, some maneuvering, and awful shooting later I splashed him.

 

The roll rate advantage is HUGE here.

[Frostie]

p2aIUt5kMEI

 

Why you want to maintain SA. I was initially looking to rejoin the fight about 15 miles away after getting 4 quick missile kills and still having 2300kg fuel left, then I saw an RWR spike and looked at him right as he shot. A couple of defeated missiles, some maneuvering, and awful shooting later I splashed him.

 

The roll rate advantage is HUGE here.

 

Good kill, though I should have got you with those guns, alas I forgot to drop my tank, big mistake.

[ttaylor0024]

Good kill, though I should have got you with those guns, alas I forgot to drop my tank, big mistake.

 

My blood was pumping after seeing those missiles coming my way so much I missed a ton of shots. Right when I saw you behind me I started pulling max G to keep you from being able to get a hit on me (or at least that was the plan) as well as try to force an overshoot. Honestly, you would have smashed me with the first missiles if I hadn't caught you on my RWR.

 

I hate when I forget to dump it in the Mirage, let alone when I did in the MiG. I ended up mapping it to my stick in the -21. I'm interested to see how people are going to counter that rolling scissors, it's effective right now.

[Jugdriver]

Some great action on that server the last couple of days!

 

Your shooting looks like mine, chasing that damn snake.. I almost want to turn it off.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[ttaylor0024]

Some great action on that server the last couple of days!

 

Your shooting looks like mine, chasing that damn snake.. I almost want to turn it off.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

Yeah I'm still not 100% confident in the snake yet... Sometimes it works, sometimes it's like this.

[Croaker47]

Yeah I'm still not 100% confident in the snake yet... Sometimes it works, sometimes it's like this.

 

Well, it's based on distance and G like the F-86F sight (Or LCOS), the line just tells you where the rounds can end up going. You have to be in stable G for a second or so for it to be accurate, I would think.

[ttaylor0024]

Well, it's based on distance and G like the F-86F sight (Or LCOS), the line just tells you where the rounds can end up going. You have to be in stable G for a second or so for it to be accurate, I would think.

 

Yeah, it works well when your flight is predictable, but doesn't update fast enough for rolling engagements.

[Croaker47]

Yeah, it works well when your flight is predictable, but doesn't update fast enough for rolling engagements.

 

It's no EEGS, that's for sure.

[jojo]

Well, it's based on distance and G like the F-86F sight (Or LCOS), the line just tells you where the rounds can end up going. You have to be in stable G for a second or so for it to be accurate, I would think.

 

Yes, with radar lock the point is on target range.

 

If you can't stabilize the track, you have to put the point on target's trajectory (forget the snake) and anticipate the trigger.

 

Of course, far easier to say than to do...I'm not better :joystick: