Bidartarra Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 6.5Nm on cold target is too far for Fox 2. It's normal here. Yeah, 3nm should be the absolute max you can expect for magic. For the 530D you could expect 6nm at 20000' in a tail chase. Ah alright, made a fool out of myself, didn't I? XD Haven't tried the 530D in tail chase. It's day and night with the new lua.
0xDEADBEEF Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Yeah, 3nm should be the absolute max you can expect for magic. For the 530D you could expect 6nm at 20000' in a tail chase. 3nm for a magic sounds like a dream compared to now :thumbup: in the original state it would not even hit 1nm cold ... thanks for your work Tharos!!!
Bidartarra Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Thanks for your work Tharos, hopefully we will see some change in the game soon.
OnlyforDCS Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Well since this happens to be the "current" Air-to-air missile problems thread, and sedenion did not post a link to this video, ill just leave this here: [ame] [/ame] Video shows Magic II missile slamming on the brakes (after motor burn out) and destroying the passing M2000C. It's hilarious and sad at the same time. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.
sedenion Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Well since this happens to be the "current" Air-to-air missile problems thread, and sedenion did not post a link to this video, ill just leave this here: I think (i hope) ED is now very aware about the weird 530D and Magic II "drog chute" flight models, but i will add a link to this marvelousely funny video :)
Bidartarra Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 It almost happened in MP a few days ago, I saw an energyless magic passing by meters away from the wing tip, thought I'd reproduce the video of sedenion lol I hope we'll see a fix, missiles performances seem to be a rather controversial matter in DCS...
sedenion Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 the video of sedenion (this is not my video... video author is here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2650168#post2650168 )
IASGATG Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 So with the new update of 2.0 came new Super and Magic missiles. I've complied 4 graphs that compare how they match up to their old stats as well in contrast to similar era weapons. As we can see the 530D went from something very similar to the R27R in performance. Now it outranges everything by a significant margin. At these shoot parameters it has traveled 11nmi and still has a velocity of Mach 1. Assuming a head to head intercept, would give the missile approximately 18nmi of range with Mach 1 worth of energy. (Enough for a high-g break) Whilst the new Magic doesn't accelerate as rapidly as it did, its performance increase speaks for itself. It outperforms both the AIM-9 and the R-73 at very close ranges, although the R-73 will obviously turn tighter due to thrust vectoring. Overall a marked improvement and Mirage pilots should see them coming out ahead in restricted payload operations. For a laugh I quickly did a shot against more modern weapons to see how it stands up, with no expectations of competition. Both the 27's have a much greater acceleration and the ER and the 120 have a lot higher top speed. However once the Super has hit it's top speed at 10 seconds (Which isn't a long period of time) it is already out performing the ET. By the 25s mark is has more speed than the ER and after the 35s the 120 as well. Never the less the 120 and the ER will have traveled a greater distance due to the amount of time they had a higher speed, but it does show that the 530D is able to maintain it's speed better than other missiles. 2
Enduro14 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 well im of the opinion Razbam should not pay any attention to any of the FC3 missles that are in dcs world and keep tweaking for their specific weapon and realworld specs the best they can. Very impressed with the improvements they have made thus far. Also please razbam dont fall into the air quake mindset of fairness missles like we have currently. I think you are on the right track and hope Others will follow suit and model the missles per their capabilities more realistically atleast with a better guess towards realism. Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S
TheJay15 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 well im of the opinion Razbam should not pay any attention to any of the FC3 missles that are in dcs world and keep tweaking for their specific weapon and realworld specs the best they can. Very impressed with the improvements they have made thus far. Also please razbam dont fall into the air quake mindset of fairness missles like we have currently. I think you are on the right track and hope Others will follow suit and model the missles per their capabilities more realistically atleast with a better guess towards realism. I don't think anyone was suggesting that and I doubt that RAZBAM will try to "equalize" their missiles with the others.
Pikey Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Good effort Scat, thought they were a little OTT, but the important things are that they got them out there in response to customer response and you've got some ace info thats easy to read for comparisons. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *
Enduro14 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Rgr i know nobody was suggesting it but it needs to be said and the customers need to voice their opinions, as Razbam is very receptive and many do not like what is the current norm of Air to Air fidelity in dcs world currently. Bravo To Razbam Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S
TheJay15 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Hopefully the Mirages new missile advantages will cause members of the community to put some pressure on ED to get the other missiles working the way they should. I suspect some F-15 pilots may be a little NaCl (hehe chemistry joke) that some French 80's SARH missile is competitve with their modern MERICAN Aim-120C. 1
IASGATG Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Good effort Scat, thought they were a little OTT, but the important things are that they got them out there in response to customer response and you've got some ace info thats easy to read for comparisons. Why so you can think they are over the top?
decipher Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 as long as the changes reflect a realistic representation of the performance of the real missiles i am ok with this. i would be very upset if they would just update missiles to be better, to please customers though... an update doesn't always mean it must perform better, should always strife to perform more realistic.
*Rage* Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 It certainly is better performing but how do we know it is more realistic? Certainly the original missiles were very poor but are these ones more realistic? Im only asking since im worried about a future where ED has an approach to missile performance, Razbam has another, VEAO has another, Leatherhead have their own interpretation and now were all flying similar era jets and missiles with totally different dynamics. Who/what is the benchmark? Genuine question. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
GGTharos Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Physics is the benchmark. Collected literature from lectures like Fleeman's, empirical data for some missiles, other data for others, data from employment manuals, wind tunnel and CFD data etc. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
*Rage* Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) ^ That hasnt helped unify the opinions before. The data is incomplete and so there is room for interpretation. And disagreement. And hence different models from different developers. The physics data for flight models is also out there (and prob far more comprehensive). Despite that flight models vary in quality between developers. Edited March 5, 2016 by ///Rage [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
Nerd1000 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 ^ That hasnt helped unify the opinions before. The data is incomplete and so there is room for interpretation. And disagreement. And hence different models from different developers. The physics data for flight models is also out there (and prob far more comprehensive). Despite that flight models vary in quality between developers. Missiles ARE aircraft (Mini kamikaze robot aircraft!). If you wanted to model their flight dynamics perfectly the workload would be similar to building a FM for a new plane.
*Rage* Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Ok. which only adds to the discrepancy between developers... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
Enduro14 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 So by some sources say that the Matra 530d have a 40km range? Razbam is that what you are shooting for? Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S
atonium83 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 So by some sources say that the Matra 530d have a 40km range? Razbam is that what you are shooting for? Yep, there is a screenshot from Wikipedia french page of R530 missile:
Recommended Posts