Saitek - I tried to love you.

[Headwarp]

TL:DR - My saitek products are failing/broken. Expecting Crosswinds in March and just ordered a TM Warthog, and considering something like the black mamba if they're still making variations of it in a year or two. If you want to hear about it - Let the reading commence - those of you having better luck with Saitek, I'm not trying to bring you down.

 

My proflight rudder pedals (not combat) have been collecting dust for about a year now as the right pedal snapped off at the base, admittedly likely my fault... they were velcro'd to the ground under my desk so they became the place to put my feet. I might have gone to stretch my legs and stressed them one too many times. That being said - toe brakes were extremely touchy, little jitttery as well. The rudder axis was great, a far cry from a twist axis on a joystick. For prop planes and jets they did the job, even if the toe breaks were too sensitive for my taste. I miss having pedals - But - I think I'll be set for life with the Crosswinds I'm expecting in March.

 

 

Now on to the x52 pro - knowing what I know now I should have RMA'd this stick as soon as I got it. But - it has been usable up until a couple of days ago. From day one it's always had jitters in the throttle and rotaries, and I see all these posts lately where that's not normal. And lol if I didn't loosen the bolt for the handle adjustment too much and it fall out. It uses the tiniest nut ever to be held and there's no way I was ever putting that back in. If this happens to you - take a piece of paper - fold it 7 times, find your desired height and wedge that paper between the stick and the handle adjustment just left of the pinky trigger. Holding strong for 3 years now.

 

I got around axis jitters it using deadzones in windows game properties. I have never liked the throttle detents below and above min/max. But over all I really liked the stick.. I mean the rubberized feel is pretty nice... the 2 hats on the stick can be 12 hats, same for throttle if you include the mouse nub. The little safety flip above the launch button is fun for me. Worked great in Elite:Dangerous seeing as they made the game around it's older brother.

 

For other games I've never quite been able to find the sensitivities/curves I would like. But I got used to that.. learned how to be very very gentle with the stick. But it eventually developed an issue where if sitting flat, if I pitched down it wouldn't snap back to center without my help. That's ok I just titled it back..but..here's where my disappointment comes in.

 

I hadn't been flying for awhile and E:D comes out.. i bust my TrackIR out, x52 pro and resolve to be content with the twist in the stick for rudder (deadzones and huge sensitivity curves). The rotary around the E button was spurratic. It floats left and right when I'm not turning it, it won't go to 100% This is a far cry from the slight jittering at center when I first bought it. The other rotary still works fine but also jitters. The slider I really want to be my zoom axis, has always been jittery and no amount of deadzones are helping it. The throttle has always had some bit of jitter to it at certain points.

 

I figure what the heck.. this thing has to be out of warranty, I'm going to bust it open, remove the throttle detents I have never liked...try cleaning or replacing the pots and see if this stick will last me much longer. Since the throttle is the one giving me issues, I started with it. 2 screws stripped very easily, and even using other methods to grip them they're very tight and apart from breaking the throttle casing, I don't see getting them out. The screws that came out easily, chunks of plastic came with them. Well there went that. I screw everything back in and settle for turning my rotaries into keystrokes with bands in SST, and living with those horrible feeling detents. Until two days ago - The forward detent doesn't grip anymore, it just pushes the throttle away from 100%. The lower detent grips, and you can hear the spring stretching out up to about 40% throttle. I GUESS i could add deadzones and get around this but.. at this point.. with a broken piece of plastic for rudder pedals, and this stick dying a slow horrible death. I think I'm done with Saitek for good. I didn't bother going so far as to considering the magnet mod for the stick.

 

I considered buying another x52 pro for the $160 pricetag and hoping I didn't get another dud, but for all the times the ps2 connections have fallen out? Nahh. I considered the x-55 and honestly it looks about the same in construction material, and I've about people having some issues with jittery axis already and I just have to assume..it's hit or miss with Saitek. I know the Warthog I just ordered is capable of having is issues as well but from what I hear it's easy to order replacement parts for it, and I'm pretty my gentle with my sticks. I learned back in the ms sidewinder days not to be slamming them like you're trying to break someone's arm in an arm wrestling match.

 

I will miss the concept of having rotaries to use as trim dials in prop planes as well as the slider, but seeing as how they were jumpy little pots anyway, I guess I won't have the chance to miss them in practice, and there are other solutions for that.

 

Really hopeful my warthog lasts me years, as I'm quite confident the crosswinds will.

[dburne]

TL:DR - My saitek products are failing/broken. Expecting Crosswinds in March and just ordered a TM Warthog

 

:thumbup:

Congrats you are in for a treat! The Crosswinds are superb, absolutely love mine, as well as the Warthog.

 

Really hopeful my warthog lasts me years, as I'm quite confident the crosswinds will.

 

 

My Warthog has been lasting for several years now, got it not too long after they were released. Recently added one of Sahaj's excellent extensions to it as well.

 

I could not be happier with this setup.

[Ramstein]

Yeah, Saitek really screwed with us... they really got nasty with going al out on other newer projects, not even bothering to help us with final Win10 drivers, and broken heaps of plastic. I am surprised that Saitek users haven't rioted, as though we have a right to, treated so badly, yet they are now pushing new products, unsuspecting newer customers probably think it won't happen to them... Sad ! :helpsmilie:

 

They must think we can just spend a fortune if they dump support... well if we do it won't be for anything else Saitek, or 'madcatz'

 

IMHO

:mad:

 

I think I found away to make my Saitek stick work again in Win10, without a final driver... I stumbled on it, but kind of complicated, since they never got a final windows driver out you have to let your machine accept the drivers without a signature.. us end users should not have to be engineers to make their stuff work!

 

TL:DR - My saitek products are failing/broken. Expecting Crosswinds in March and just ordered a TM Warthog, and considering something like the black mamba if they're still making variations of it in a year or two. If you want to hear about it - Let the reading commence - those of you having better luck with Saitek, I'm not trying to bring you down.

.....................................................

[Headwarp]

Yeah, I actually have quite a few modules in DCS, fc3, the two free modules that come with DCS World 1.5, a-10c, blackshark 2, p-51D. Also having IL-2 1946 and RoF, I'm already considering an extension.

 

I actually saw what looked to be most awesomely simple DIY setup where they mounted the base plate of the warthog on a piece of wood on the ground with Velcro to hold rudder pedals in place. Holes to put office chair wheels to stop movement. From the mounted base plate they machined a pipe to elevate the actual control base up to above knee level, and then even added an extension between that and the stick for prop planes/choppers.

 

I had been asking the folks that make the wheel stand pro if they would be able to alter their design to add room for keyboard/peripherals but honestly it seems like something I could easily add a stand for the throttle to. An extension is definitely something I'm already thinking about.

[Headwarp]

Yeah, Saitek really screwed with us... they really got nasty with going al out on other newer projects, not even bothering to help us with final Win10 drivers, and broken heaps of plastic. I am surprised that Saitek users haven't rioted, as though we have a right to, treated so badly, yet they are now pushing new products, unsuspecting newer customers probably think it won't happen to them... Sad ! :helpsmilie:

 

They must think we can just spend a fortune if they dump support... well if we do it won't be for anything else Saitek, or 'madcatz'

 

IMHO

:mad:

 

I think I found away to make my Saitek stick work again in Win10, without a final driver... I stumbled on it, but kind of complicated, since they never got a final windows driver out you have to let your machine accept the drivers without a signature.. us end users should not have to be engineers to make their stuff work!

 

I had my stick running Win10 but it was tricky. When I would install drivers and unplug for a couple days it wouldn't recognize it and would attempt to install new drivers and fail. Going into device manager manually and installing "Generic USB Device" or something similar to that got it to where I could reinstall the latest saitek drrivers with my x52 pro and have it work. The drivers before that I had to install the win 8 drivers rather than win10.

 

 

I will admit..their software has always been kind of janky but..I think my issues were more hardware related. Dirty pots and what not. CCleaner is our friend. Also I disabled any usb 3.0 functionality on my machine and uninstalled usb 3.0 drivers from win10 because they in general don't mix well with saitek devices and I also don't use any usb drives or anything to that effect.

[Vlerkies]

I used to have a U2NXT modded Cougar then got a Warthog specifically for the A10C when it was released.

I was predominantly flying old IL2 with the Cougar but the plug and play with the Warthog hotas/A10 was to much temptation to resist :)

Before that I had mostly Saitek stuff, from single joysticks to the X45 (loved the rudder rocker, was a sniper rifle for IL2 :) ) then the X52 and X52Pro.

Rudders the std pedals and now the combat pedals, which recently have a toe brake pot that has gone tits up and I am trying to fix.

 

Love the hog, but when I started flying the Huey it was getting annoying. The constant movement just off the center required for flight was actually not comfortable for long sessions of gaming due to the force required for getting it just off the center.

For jets, perfect.

 

The Cougar and the U2NXT was like butter and I regret getting rid of it but at the time it made sense.

I subsequently had some custom mainsprings made for my Warthog, not wanting any extensions as such, just wanting to improve the feel and got to a point where I think its pretty darn good.

A little demo. No issues with comfort or accurate controls off center.

 

 

 

Also put in an order for the Crosswinds. By the time they are ready to ship I should have some extra cash. From what I have seen and read from all the reputable and respected reviewers, they are simply awesome.

I really hope and wish Milan and MFG well, its about time someone took it to the big boys that are way to comfortable it seems.

 

The only thing I saw that concerns me a fraction with the Crosswinds is the smallish baseplate, is it not prone to tip over to one side with input?

Minor, as I reckon you could mount it to a board and just place it under the desk.

[Headwarp]

I used to have a U2NXT modded Cougar then got a Warthog specifically for the A10C when it was released.

I was predominantly flying old IL2 with the Cougar but the plug and play with the Warthog hotas/A10 was to much temptation to resist :)

Before that I had mostly Saitek stuff, from single joysticks to the X45 (loved the rudder rocker, was a sniper rifle for IL2 :) ) then the X52 and X52Pro.

Rudders the std pedals and now the combat pedals, which recently have a toe brake pot that has gone tits up and I am trying to fix.

 

Love the hog, but when I started flying the Huey it was getting annoying. The constant movement just off the center required for flight was actually not comfortable for long sessions of gaming due to the force required for getting it just off the center.

For jets, perfect.

 

The Cougar and the U2NXT was like butter and I regret getting rid of it but at the time it made sense.

I subsequently had some custom mainsprings made for my Warthog, not wanting any extensions as such, just wanting to improve the feel and got to a point where I think its pretty darn good.

A little demo. No issues with comfort or accurate controls off center.

 

 

 

Also put in an order for the Crosswinds. By the time they are ready to ship I should have some extra cash. From what I have seen and read from all the reputable and respected reviewers, they are simply awesome.

I really hope and wish Milan and MFG well, its about time someone took it to the big boys that are way to comfortable it seems.

 

The only thing I saw that concerns me a fraction with the Crosswinds is the smallish baseplate, is it not prone to tip over to one side with input?

Minor, as I reckon you could mount it to a board and just place it under the desk.

 

Milan's website actually has a video that explains that yes, the corsswinds will tip if you are using only one foot.. but it's easily solvable with velcro, or if you have something to mount it to you can mount it with bolts. If you don't have a seat or a diy solution just buy some heavy duty velcro and you'll be fine.

 

I think if the warthog proves too tiresome for non jet piloting, I'm debating currently on just getting an extension, or perhaps even just getting a CH fighterstick to have sitting around so I don't have to take my warthog stick apart if I decide certain planes feel better at stock height. From what I hear the CH stick doesn't take a lot of force to manipulate.. but we shall see. Either way I'm going to give the warthog a full go at stock and see if I'm man enough to manhandle it.

[Vlerkies]

Yeah, its a minor issue and quick to resolve. Simple small sheet of ply board as a base with some countersunk screws will sort it if there is a prob. No biggy. Take 10 minutes to do. :thumbup:

 

I think if the warthog proves too tiresome for non jet piloting, I'm debating currently on just getting an extension, or perhaps even just getting a CH fighterstick to have sitting around so I don't have to take my warthog stick apart if I decide certain planes feel better at stock height. From what I hear the CH stick doesn't take a lot of force to manipulate.. but we shall see. Either way I'm going to give the warthog a full go at stock and see if I'm man enough to manhandle it.

You wont be dissapointed with the Hog, it will take a little getting used to coming off the lighter (not just by weight) feel sticks, but its pretty good out the box, way better than the cougar ever was in the same state. The stock cougar gimbals were not to clever and overtime also wore down a lot. The Hog is completely different, very direct and precise. Its just the little extra effort required to get it off center point that was a issue for me, and only with the Huey.

 

It's a personal thing. I flew the A-10 and IL2 Cod plenty with it stock no problems. Just got annoyed when flying the Huey, so made a few changes to get a balance.

I will argue its better now for all though, with a different spring setup (which cost only a few dollars) :lol:, but yes, people are able to get a similar effect with the extension which essentially increases the leverage, reducing the required pressure off center.

 

Thrustmaster as well, unlike Saitek, seem to be quite willing to help if you have issues, and replacement parts, even for the Cougar would be shipped anywhere in the world if you need them.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Vlerkies

[Headwarp]

Yeah, I have to admit - I like jets. I like flying them more so than the a-10c even. I grew up around jets. Many a time have a seen a low flying f-15, f-16, or f4 over the housing section of an air force base on its landing approach.

 

Warthog pretty much has the controls for the f-15, f-16, and a-10c covered. Jumping into the su-27 in fc3, I realize I am more into fighter jets than anything as far as flying goes. But definitely will be flying the a-10c a lot since it's going to be very close to the real thing.

 

Apologize for stepping outside of DCS in the Eagle forums - but one thing I like about using the CH stick for prop planes aside from the reduction in force required to manipulate off center is that is has two rotary dials on it that would be awesome for rudder/elevator trim in prop planes. And maybe easier to fly helicopters if I choose not to mod my warthog at all. The DCS P-51 D module and any wwII I'm kind of spoiled on the idea of having an axis assigned to trim on planes that utilized such methods.

 

And honestly I feel in a game like say- Elite: Dangerous - the stiffness of the warthog with stock springs and no extension might actually be preferred if you ever choose to fly with flight assist off, as I felt like I was constantly overcorrecting when I tried to do so with my x52 pro.

 

I'd be very interested in knowing how the CH Fighter stick performs for prop planes and choppers, even knowing the warthog a-10c/f16 stick is going to be in my arsenal for the rest of my simming lifetime.

[Vlerkies]

I used the 1 rotary on the x45 and Cougar for prop pitch with IL2. WOrked a treat.

On the hog, pinky and paddle switches, just as good and easy.

[j0nx]

I love the X-55 I just inherited. Only problem is that it only came with the green spring which I think is the stiffest one. I need the least stiff spring for the Huey. Right now I'm running without a spring but the stick flops everywhere and you can't take your hand off of it for a second or you will get a mast strike. I emailed Saitek but they told me they don't sell replacements and without a receipt of purchase then they don't honor warranty replacements...

[Headwarp]

whoops.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Headwarp
somehow replied to the wrong thread -

[Vlerkies]

I love the X-55 I just inherited. Only problem is that it only came with the green spring which I think is the stiffest one. I need the least stiff spring for the Huey. Right now I'm running without a spring but the stick flops everywhere and you can't take your hand off of it for a second or you will get a mast strike. I emailed Saitek but they told me they don't sell replacements and without a receipt of purchase then they don't honor warranty replacements...

Send Saitek a suitable response, like F U. then take your spring out and take it to a local spring/engineering business, that makes springs.

When they look at the spring, explain what you are wanting in tension and they will be able to make a few up for you in no time at all very cheaply.

 

Points to note from my Hog experience, make sure the compressed size of whatever spring they make you is very similar to the stock spring, or else you may loose some movement across the axis, or gain.

They can adapt this by the material itself/material thickness/ number of coils.

[j0nx]

No clue where to find such an outfit that can do that and the price for it would probably be $100 or more where I live and not worth it. I inherited the controls and some other simming gear from my late Father and thought it would be easier to get Saitek to send me some replacements than driving 4 hours back up to my Mom's to tear apart the house looking for the box that it came in (assuming I can even find it) which is probably where the other springs are. I'll look for them end of the month when I go up there to visit her. Nothing is ever easy these days...

[Headwarp]

No clue where to find such an outfit that can do that and the price for it would probably be $100 or more where I live and not worth it. I inherited the controls and some other simming gear from my late Father and thought it would be easier to get Saitek to send me some replacements than driving 4 hours back up to my Mom's to tear apart the house looking for the box that it came in (assuming I can even find it) which is probably where the other springs are. I'll look for them end of the month when I go up there to visit her. Nothing is ever easy these days...

 

I wish you all the luck with that x-55. Never hurts to start googling and ask a local machining company what it would cost to make a spring to your specs.

 

Or there's this!

 

[ame]

[/ame]

[Vlerkies]

No clue where to find such an outfit that can do that and the price for it would probably be $100 or more where I live and not worth it. I inherited the controls and some other simming gear from my late Father and thought it would be easier to get Saitek to send me some replacements than driving 4 hours back up to my Mom's to tear apart the house looking for the box that it came in (assuming I can even find it) which is probably where the other springs are. I'll look for them end of the month when I go up there to visit her. Nothing is ever easy these days...

 

Hi Jon

I had about 6 springs made up for me for my hog to trial and error test.

The whole lot cost me maybe no more than $10 or R100 zar at the time.

 

Cheap easy, and you get to spec it.

There must be engineering companies around near you, family owned businesses even that turn springs daily., Just have a look around.

 

I am 100% certain if you ask, someone here with the same stick and all the springs will take photos of them and take a micrometer to ascertain the gauge of each, so you can use that info to custom make.

It really is cheap.

 

Saitek wont even send me pots for my rudders.

No more Saitek for me, I vomit on it.

 

Milan from MFG Crosswind accepted my order last night, bye bye Saitek. Had about 6 different pieces of hardware from them, will never buy another one as long as I live if this is their current attitude.

[Headwarp]

For me it's a little heartbreaking honestly. It's a lot easier to drop $200 or less on a stick than $400 for a stick that's "on sale" on Newegg. The x52 pro FEELS great to me.. being rubberized and not difficult to reach any of the buttons. Eyeballing the x-55 I love that the throttle uses return to center toggles and has extra rotaries. But my experience tells me to stay away from it unless I plan on opening it up and checking that all the many wires in it are soldered correctly, and that I'd probably have to clean the pots with contact cleaner from time to time.

 

My Warthog says "Shipped" on newegg. :D Wish I had some rudder pedals to hold me over until Milan sends the invoice. I want to fast forward until March already. Maybe it'll be warm around here by then too. Maybe I can somewhat rig my busted x52 pro throttle to do rudder for me in the mean time.

[dburne]

My Warthog says "Shipped" on newegg. :D Wish I had some rudder pedals to hold me over until Milan sends the invoice. .

 

:thumbup:

 

Congrats, you are in for a treat!

[531-Ghost]

Oh Oh...

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/mad-catz-cutting-37-percent-of-total-workforce-ami/1100-6434652/

[Vlerkies]

Oh Oh...

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/mad-catz-cutting-37-percent-of-total-workforce-ami/1100-6434652/

 

Sad, I sent them a stinking mail today regarding pot support and basically told them I wont ever buy anything from them ever again.

[j0nx]

First thing a company does when they are having trouble is cut support out. I guess it was clear based on the experiences from others in this thread that this company was struggling to keep its head above water for a while. It's pretty bad when they won't even replace minor parts for products that they make or at the very least allow the customer to purchase them and ship them on their dime. I would be perfectly willing to buy the springs myself but they said they can't do that. No spare parts supply chain for their products most likely indicating financial issues..

[Headwarp]

Almost 3 am here.. my stick left a town 3 hours away about 3 hours ago. :) Should have it within the next 15 hours.

[Headwarp]

So my warthog is here and wow just wow. This thing is one heavy beast. I can actually draw circles with the joystick axis...and Everytthing seems to be working.

 

 

First thing I'm going to comment on is the feel - WOW. I knew it was all metal construction on the outside...but this thing is heavy.. very heavy.

 

Next thing I'll comment on - I don't know how I was flying with an unmodded x52 pro as long as I was - it drew diamonds instead of circles when rotating the axes, the spring tension was wayyy weak and touchy.. I took one test flight in the a-10 and even though I don't yet have my rudder pedals.. this thing just feels super accurate and easy to fly with.

 

I actually really like the default stick tension. That may change when I start getting into helicopters and what not...

 

but this stick feels sooo much better to use in every way than my x52 pro did. It's going to take some getting used to.. and I need to sit back in the a-10 training mission and relearn what all these switches do.

 

Thanks guys for chiming in and keeping my hopes up while I waited on this thing.. Now if i could only fast forward to March when I should be hearing about my MFG Crosswinds.

[Headwarp]

Oh... and I just ordered two of these for a mounting solution.

 

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40242177/

[dburne]

but this stick feels sooo much better to use in every way than my x52 pro did. It's going to take some getting used to.. and I need to sit back in the a-10 training mission and relearn what all these switches do.

 

Thanks guys for chiming in and keeping my hopes up while I waited on this thing.. Now if i could only fast forward to March when I should be hearing about my MFG Crosswinds.

 

:thumbup:

 

Congrats! I love my Warthog still just as much, and have had it a few years now. Recently added one of Sahaj's extensions to it as well. The Warthog plus the MFG pedals is the ultimate, great combo!