Donut Posted March 13, 2016 Posted March 13, 2016 In this article http://defence.pk/threads/f-16-vs-f-18-a-navy-test-pilots-perspective.169261/ the takeoff performance of the F-16 and F/A-18 is compared by a pilot who flew both aircraft. The article notes that the F-16 is capable of achieving 500 knots+ by the end of the runway while the F/A-18 achieved 330 knots at the end of the runway. The F-16 also needed 1,200 feet to get airborne at 160 knots while the F/A-18 needed 200 more feet. Does anyone know what type of acceleration and performance the Tomcat is capable of in comparison when taking off from a runway? i5 7600K @4.8GHz | 1080 Ti | 32GB 3200MHz | SSD | DCS SETTINGS | "COCKPIT"
Grundar Posted March 13, 2016 Posted March 13, 2016 From what I can find with a quick net trawl, about 2500ft for take off from the field.
BlackLion213 Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 Plus, its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison (in some ways). The F-14B/D take-off in military power as there is a minimum airspeed for afterburner thrust, has to do with having enough rudder authority to maintain yaw stability during an engine out situation. I also read that some re-engined Tomcats were over-speeding their landing gear doors on take-off (from a magazine article around 2000 - not sure it thats really true). So taking off in military power it would have a longer take-off roll than its 4th gen brethren taking off in full afterburner. The F-14A used full afterburner for take-off and I've seen it in person. Its not a long distance, but certainly not less than 1200'. The F-14A (and B/D) can lift off at a relatively low airspeed given its excellent lift with the wings at 20 deg of sweep (not to mention full flaps if used - frequently weren't for land-based take-offs). That said, the F-14A doesn't make its best thrust with the TF30 at 0 airspeed, due to the long intakes. The installed thrust of the TF30 at 0 airspeed is 17,077 lbs of thrust (20,900 static thrust and 28,000 lbs at mach 0.9 and sea level). I'm not sure if the installed thrust figure accounts for the mid-compression bypass, which costs the engine another ~3000 lbs of thrust. The mid-compression bypass stabilizes airflow under conditions where turbulent air was common (landing gear deployed or AOA above 20 units (? IIRC)). This was one of the new features of the TF30-P-414 (vs the 412) that improved stall margin. As such, the F-14A does not make its best thrust in the take-off configuration, but thrust rapidly increases as the aircraft buttons up and gains airspeed. Still, on the Aerosoft F-14A, it gets airborne rather quickly (comparable to the Mirage - though on a totally different sim platform) and reaches about 400 knots by the end of a Nellis length runway. Seems respectable to me. Once you light the burners on the F-14B (again Aerosoft) the acceleration is mighty impressive. -Nick
Hydrox Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 According to one source, takeoff distance would be less than 1200ft. - clean, with military thrust @ 0 degrees celsius.
mvsgas Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Plus, its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison (in some ways). :D Every aircraft comparison is like that, that never stopped anyone here. The F-14B/D take-off in military power as there is a minimum airspeed for afterburner thrust, has to do with having enough rudder authority to maintain yaw stability during an engine out situation. I also read that some re-engined Tomcats were over-speeding their landing gear doors on take-off (from a magazine article around 2000 - not sure it thats really true). So taking off in military power it would have a longer take-off roll than its 4th gen brethren taking off in full afterburner. The F-14A used full afterburner for take-off and I've seen it in person. Its not a long distance, but certainly not less than 1200'. The F-14A (and B/D) can lift off at a relatively low airspeed given its excellent lift with the wings at 20 deg of sweep (not to mention full flaps if used - frequently weren't for land-based take-offs). That said, the F-14A doesn't make its best thrust with the TF30 at 0 airspeed, due to the long intakes. The installed thrust of the TF30 at 0 airspeed is 17,077 lbs of thrust (20,900 static thrust and 28,000 lbs at mach 0.9 and sea level). I'm not sure if the installed thrust figure accounts for the mid-compression bypass, which costs the engine another ~3000 lbs of thrust. The mid-compression bypass stabilizes airflow under conditions where turbulent air was common (landing gear deployed or AOA above 20 units (? IIRC)). This was one of the new features of the TF30-P-414 (vs the 412) that improved stall margin. As such, the F-14A does not make its best thrust in the take-off configuration, but thrust rapidly increases as the aircraft buttons up and gains airspeed. Still, on the Aerosoft F-14A, it gets airborne rather quickly (comparable to the Mirage - though on a totally different sim platform) and reaches about 400 knots by the end of a Nellis length runway. Seems respectable to me. Once you light the burners on the F-14B (again Aerosoft) the acceleration is mighty impressive. -Nick Cool thank. Edited March 14, 2016 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Hummingbird Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Take off speed & roll at military power is listed in the manual at all weights. Take off roll at sea level, temperature 60 deg F: 55,000 lbs = ~1,700 feet 60,000 lbs = ~2,200 feet 65,000 lbs = ~2,600 feet. Sadly no info for a take off at full AB, but that would definitely shave off a lot of distance. Under 1,200 feet at full AB wouldn't surprise me. Should be noted that the F-14B/D was the only aircraft capable of taking off from the carrier at military thrust with a heavy load out, the F/A-18 needs full AB. Edited March 14, 2016 by Hummingbird
Hydrox Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 Take off speed & roll at military power is listed in the manual at all weights. Take off roll at sea level, temperature 60 deg F: 55,000 lbs = ~1,700 feet 60,000 lbs = ~2,200 feet 65,000 lbs = ~2,600 feet. Sadly no info for a take off at full AB, but that would definitely shave off a lot of distance. Under 1,200 feet at full AB wouldn't surprise me. Should be noted that the F-14B/D was the only aircraft capable of taking off from the carrier at military thrust with a heavy load out, the F/A-18 needs full AB. Well if it's below 1200ft. with mil. power I guess it's below 1200 ft. with full afterburners. 1
mvsgas Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) ...Should be noted that the F-14B/D was the only aircraft capable of taking off from the carrier at military thrust with a heavy load out... :D:smartass::P Actually the list of aircraft that was capable of taking off from carrier with "heavy load out" on "military thrust" is quite large. All WWII and many Korea era aircraft like the Skyraider, more modern A-4,6,7, S-3, C-2, E-2, U-2, etc....all capable to take off at MGTOW on "military thrust".... and obviously I know what you meant, I just could not resist. :thumbup: Edited March 14, 2016 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
HairyPOOnuggets Posted March 14, 2016 Posted March 14, 2016 For aircraft performance data and charts, refer to NAVAIR 01−F14AAP−1.1. TIME FOR MATH !!!
Hummingbird Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 :D:smartass::P Actually the list of aircraft that was capable of taking off from carrier with "heavy load out" on "military thrust" is quite large. All WWII and many Korea era aircraft like the Skyraider, more modern A-4,6,7, S-3, C-2, E-2, U-2, etc....all capable to take off at MGTOW on "military thrust".... and obviously I know what you meant, I just could not resist. :thumbup: :D:thumbup:
Hummingbird Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 Well if it's below 1200ft. with mil. power I guess it's below 1200 ft. with full afterburners. At 60 deg F the aircraft would need to be at a weight under 50,000 lbs to take off in under 1,200 ft at military thrust.
Danneskjold Posted March 15, 2016 Posted March 15, 2016 [ame]http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-14A_Tomcat_SAC_-_April_1977.pdf[/ame] F-14A SAC. [ame]http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-14D_Tomcat_SAC_-_July_1985_(Partially_Declas).pdf[/ame] F-14D SAC (partial). ~2400 feet ground run with no wind, 4 sparrows, and full fuel on the A, no wind, 4 sparrows + 4 Sidewinders, and full fuel on the D. ( SAVE THIS WEBSITE: http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/SAC.htm )
Hydrox Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 At 60 deg F the aircraft would need to be at a weight under 50,000 lbs to take off in under 1,200 ft at military thrust. Yes, good that you pointed that out..
Hummingbird Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) F-14B/D take off distance with full A/B at SL @ 0 wind and 60,400 lbs = 1,150 feet. Pretty damn impressive. Edited March 16, 2016 by Hummingbird
Buzzles Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 Basically, the Tomcat goes like sh*t off a shovel :) Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here!
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