New Build: Seeking opinions on parts and assembly

[Specter1075]

Hello friends!

 

After a LONG time without a simming PC, I am finally (FINALLY!) in a position to build a new unit. Provided I am not breaking any forum rules, I would like this thread to serve as my HQ for the build, so that I may ask all you fine people for opinions and advice as I build my machine. I will likely have a lot of questions, so I figure its better to keep them in one place.

 

First, I must disclose that among those questions will likely be some dumb ones. I have never been any kind of expert, and this will be my first from-scratch build. So if you read something and think to yourself "He couldnt possibly mean what he wrote...", well, I might have. :)

 

I have been reading through the forums here looking for what things matter in terms of performance. I am not certain how lofty a goal playing at 4K is, but I do hope to at the very least have a machine that smoothly plays at higher end settings. What I have gathered (I could be mistaken) is that CPU speed makes a big difference as multicore is not something fully utilized by DCS. Additionally, RAM and GPU are crucial.

 

So these are the first things Ive picked out. Nothing is set in stone, and would appreciate hearing about incompatibilities or things that should be different.

 

Corsair Graphite Series 780T

Seasonic X1050 Gold ATX

I7 6700K MSI Z170A Gaming M7 ATX

Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 ( 2x8, or possibly 4x8 )

Kraken x61 CPU cooling (**To be added later if needed)

EVGA GTX980 Ti (x2 eventually) To be re-evaluated in June.

 

If running at 4k is realistic, I was thinking about starting with a Philips BDM4065UC 40'' 4K monitor, and later getting a second GPU and a second (maybe third) monitor.

 

 

 

Questions:

 

Is 16GB RAM suitable? In the greater scheme of things, adding an additional 16 would be fairly cheap. Would there be any benefit?

 

I know an SSD is good for performance too. Ive looked at a Samsung 850 EVO 2TB drive, and am curious if anyone knew anything about them, or their viability.

 

Someone here spoke highly of Fractal cases. Im not sure which case would be best. Recommendations would be really appreciated.

 

Assuming I buy a second GTX980Ti, what kind of power source should I be looking at?

 

Everything else (cooling solutions, sound card, things that have slipped my mind) are still to be determined.

 

Any and all input would be appreciated. Im looking forward to rejoining your ranks!

 

Thanks all!

Edited March 20, 2016 by Specter1075

[Demon_]

Assuming I buy a second GTX980Ti, what kind of power source should I be looking at?

 

 

A gold certification.

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

http://www.thetechgame.com/Archives/t=5613293/power-supply-guide-the-good-and-the-bad.html

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Demon_

[Specter1075]

Great links! Merci bien!

[Demon_]

The MSI Gaming 7 is expensive.

Gigabytes Z170X-UD5, or the UD3.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Demon_

[mpdugas]

I am using the same motherboard, except as an AMD build for my FX9590, and I really am happy with the feature set.

 

Your CPU choice is a well-rounded one; focus mainly on single-thread performance, since very few programs use more than one core, save for graphics rendering.

 

I have 16GB RAM, and very rarely see DCS use more than 2.5GB RAM, but I am running 1.5.3 and have no NTTR map.

 

With a GTX 970 (slight O/C) and no O/C on the CPU, I see average 95 fps at 1920 x 1200, high settings. It is smooth and stutter-free.

 

I was using an AMD R9 295X2 video card, but I saw absolutely no benefit using Cross-fire; most games still are not programmed for multi-GPUs, so your deferring that decision for a second card, until you see the need in a 4K build, is probably a good idea.

 

I am guessing the 980Ti can handle a single monitor in 4K, but that is just a guess.

 

I believe in PS overkill, because nothing kills electronics like under-volting, so I run a PC Power and Cooling 1200 watt supply (mainly for the benefit of the AMD card/FX9590 combo I mentioned earlier).

 

Consider liquid cooling both the CPU and GPU; there are very nice AIO cooling kits for both (e.g EVGA sells a nice AIO GTX 980 Ti with a cooling kit as their 'hybrid' unit). I am using a Kraken X60 and it kept my FX9590 running nicely, even when one of the radiator fans failed. I rarely see more that 40 degrees C on my CPU, even under 8 cores at 100% sustained load. So much for the FX9590 running hot-and-hungry.

 

I find the MSI motherboard sound solution perfectly adequate with a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones. If you have the cash and the slots, buy a dedicated sound card if you like.

 

Cases are the most subjective choice of all, but be sure you can have good airflow; that is why I use AIO cooling. Those massive air coolers block a lot of airflow over the other main board components. I run three intake fans and three exhaust.

 

You have chosen some nice starting points, and this is just my opinion speaking.

[Specter1075]

Awesome! Thanks for the reply! (And you too Demon!)

 

I had been under the impression that liquid cooling was usually for those that go the route of over-clocking, so I had not put a lot of thought into it. Should I reconsider then? I did see EVGA's liquid cooling option for their 980TI, and wouldnt mind something self-contained like that. I guess I would not want to get into something that could leak because of my inexperience, but closed-loop stuff should be ok.

[Demon_]

I had been under the impression that liquid cooling was usually for those that go the route of over-clocking, so I had not put a lot of thought into it. Should I reconsider then?

 

If you don't expect to overclock a lot, you don't need a big cooler. The i7 6700K at 4.4Ghz don't even need a big overclock. And yes, the Kraken is a beast.

 

I did see EVGA's liquid cooling option for their 980TI, and wouldnt mind something self-contained like that.

 

I'm not sure if that's worst the price. Look for the gpu frequency.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144333

[Specter1075]

So the 980Ti seems to not give a massive jump. That said, do we know more now that 1.5/2.0 are out/around the corner?

 

Cooling is very much where I am lacking the most knowledge. Since I do not intend to really push the overclocking, I had thought about remaining air cooled. Though even in that regard, I am not sure what would be adequate vs overkill. Is the Noctua D15 something with a similar purpose as the Kraken? (I mean to say, would a D15 be overkill for someone not pushing their CPU to the limit?)

 

Also, thanks again, Demon. I saw you translated your earlier post. I do understand some French, but lost the ability to speak quite a while ago. It was supplanted with a third language, and it turns out my head only has room for two. :(

 

EDIT

 

From my understanding, the similar performance between the older cards and the 980ti is the result of software. This may be the million dollar question, but does it seem like better optimization of multiple or high end cards is on the horizon or a long term goal? I do not mind spending more up front if it will carry me a little ways into the future with DCS. However, if the 980Ti will maintain its relative performance to older cards going forward, then its obviously not worth the cost for me.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Specter1075

[lazduc]

What with new video cards coming very shortly and the idea of matching VR and 4k monitors video requirements with these, I would wait before purchasing the 980ti. I've read where the need will be for at least 16gb of video ram to satisfy these new monitors and VR headsets. Also of course the fast GPU's to feed the video. I was going to build another gamming rig but I am going to wait as I think the new hardware coming soon will need the new video systems to run. I just do not want to build a 3000.00 system and not have it run the new 4k at 100fps monitors.

SLI will not help as DCS does not support it...but supposedly may in the future...who knows?

Unless you have unlimited budget, purchase now and then have to purchase in 3-4 months is not justifiable to many.

I will not build a machine specific to DCS as their requirements are rather ambiguous IMHO. I have in the past and after waiting for announced specific improvements like sli support and EDGE , I wasted money purchasing two video cards.

[Specter1075]

Thaks for the reply Lazduc!

 

A couple things: In my case, Ive been waiting 7 years to get back into simming, so Im not super keen on waiting. I also do not envision VR as something I will want to pursue.

 

That said, I am not sure I understand you completely with regards to the hardware that will be releasing soon. What will be coming out in 3-4 months that would require me to replace components? I thought currently available hardware was sufficient to run DCS in 4K with adeqaute frame rates. Am I mistaken?

 

I should note that while DCS is what I expect to spend the majority of my time running, I will also be playing other games, so the lack of serious gains with a 980Ti is not a big deal if it is not a forever issue with DCS, and does not apply to games in general.

[Hadwell]

Thaks for the reply Lazduc!

 

A couple things: In my case, Ive been waiting 7 years to get back into simming, so Im not super keen on waiting. I also do not envision VR as something I will want to pursue.

 

That said, I am not sure I understand you completely with regards to the hardware that will be releasing soon. What will be coming out in 3-4 months that would require me to replace components? I thought currently available hardware was sufficient to run DCS in 4K with adeqaute frame rates. Am I mistaken?

 

I should note that while DCS is what I expect to spend the majority of my time running, I will also be playing other games, so the lack of serious gains with a 980Ti is not a big deal if it is not a forever issue with DCS, and does not apply to games in general.

 

currently available hardware is sufficiant to run most games games at 4K... but the really graphics intensive games, not really.

 

it's like VR... most people don't realize that even if the screen door effect is less, in real life, when you get further away from something, the amount of matter it contains is the same, it just gets futher away.

 

in the VR headset, the further away you get from something, the less matter it contains, it's less pixels, less resolution, not just smaller, but physically less of it.

 

so even 4K for VR is a really low resolution.

 

also, right now, pretty much all VR games have the polygon count of a late playstation 2, early playstation 3 game, in order for current hardware to run it at 90 fps+

 

though you can play games like DCS if you don't mind it barely running at 30 fps, unless you're just flying around on an empty map.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Hadwell

[Demon_]

Is the Noctua D15 something with a similar purpose as the Kraken?

 

Yes.

 

would a D15 be overkill for someone not pushing their CPU to the limit?

 

Yes. But you'll keep your cooler for future upgrade.

 

Maybe the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO (the best for the buck) for your introduction. I have the Noctua NH-D14, excellent and totally quiet. Prolimatech is superior to Noctua.

2014: http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_Heatsinks

 

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-pc-builds,4390.html

Look at the motherboards. The SSD (850 EVO (250GB or maybe 512?)) with a 1TB drive. Gold certification psu only for power hungry video card(s).

 

They suggest the i5 6600K because of the ability to overclock at the same speed than the i7 6700K at lower price: http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12201110591&vpn=BX80662I56600K&manufacture=INTEL

If you don't want to annoy you of the overclocking, get the i7.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Demon_

[TomOnSteam]

wait until June for the new nvidia cards. They're apparently twice as powerful, and will cost similar.

[Konovalov]

If it was me near the end of March I would try to hold off till the NVidia Pascal cards come out. In particular given that you would like to drive a 4k display I would wait and see. If you can't wait three months then by all means grab a 980Ti.

[mpdugas]

Awesome! Thanks for the reply! (And you too Demon!)

 

I had been under the impression that liquid cooling was usually for those that go the route of over-clocking, so I had not put a lot of thought into it. Should I reconsider then? I did see EVGA's liquid cooling option for their 980TI, and wouldnt mind something self-contained like that. I guess I would not want to get into something that could leak because of my inexperience, but closed-loop stuff should be ok.

 

Liquid cooling is very useful in normal running; it is quiet and less stressful on your motherboard, since there is so little mass actually attached to the CPU socket. My Kraken is a liquid, closed-loop All-in-One (AIO) CPU cooler.

 

As I mentioned earlier, when one of my Kraken radiator fans failed, the other fan managed just fine until I could replace it, all on "silent" mode. Even if an AIO fails, you will have a little bit more time to safely shutdown, because the volume of cooling liquid acts like a safety reservoir under conditions of thermo-siphoning.

 

It also heats up slower, and cools down slower, both of which reduces thermal shock to the electronic components. I've run AIO for years, and never a leak. I've had CPU and GPU liquid AIOs, with never an issue, but leaking does remain a possibility.

 

However, if you mount a large air cooler to your motherboard, that mass will constantly pull at a right-angle on your CPU socket mount, and may very well bend or crack the main-board over time. The risk of an AIO leaking is but a possibility; the bending effect of gravity is a certainty. A small force, of course, but a constant one.

 

The thrust of the fans (1 to 3 fans in a large air system) cooling the air tower also contribute to CPU socket strain, although, again, only in a small fashion. You could arrange fan thrust to offset the gravitational pull, but that would interfere with case cooling.

 

More than one fan on an air cooler also creates a bit of resonant vibration in the cooler tower itself, because they cannot spin at the same speed. Again, that is a small force, but it acts constantly over time, and it will eventually have an effect.

 

The liquid AIO cooling plate has no thrust component.

 

Kraken is not at all the same as a Noctua cooler. The former is an liquid AIO, the latter is an air cooler.

 

Large air coolers block cooling air movement to most of the circuitry near itself on the motherboard, reducing cooling to components overshadowed by it. Those can be some of the hottest components on the motherboard.

 

For the same reason, choose a video card that exhausts its waste heat out of the case, and not just back into the case itself. That's like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Liquid AIOs for both CPUs and GPUs exhaust all waste heat out of the case.

 

Finally, two liquid AIOs have less fans than a traditional air cooler, since all AIO fans are vent-to-outside fans. My GPU radiator, with its single fan, was mounted in my upper back case wall, and the CPU cooler with radiator and fan(s) was on the top of the case.

 

With an air cooler, you normally have those same case fans, as well as the fans attached to the air cooling tower itself, which can be as few as one and up to three. Fewer fans means less noise and a slight lessening in power requirements.

 

You're getting lots of good advice here. Every system type has its attributes and faults.

 

When my money permits, I will shift to the EVGA 980Ti hybrid (or whatever is its nearest equivalent at the time) and a nice, large, curved, high resolution monitor with Gsync, perhaps like a Predator (if they ever get their quality issues sorted out).

[lazduc]

Hardware is always evolving. I have read the next generation of video cards will have much faster gpu's and will have at least 16gb of memory to match the upcoming video displays.

Your component list is right on the cutting edge...I also recommend a 1200 watt power supply. Get 32gb of memory. Get a 480gb ssd. Actually get two ssd's. Unless you are a super audiophile type I would not get a sound card....several reasons for this..slows transfers on pci-e bus of other system resources that are also on the pci-e bus and the onboard sound is just as good as any sound card...except the very high end cards.

You wont have to replace any components in 3 months except possibly your video card due to the already mentioned issues. Purchasing another 980ti to keep up with the newest hardware/software video wise will not help you with DCS...again as DCS does not support SLI. Use the search function on this site and lookup the performance and issues with the latest video cards.

 

The things is your displays...the larger they are and the higher the resolution the more powerful the video card requirements.

 

DCS for the most part is still in what is referred to as beta. ED, Eagle Dynamics, has upgraded their software with a component called EDGE. ED is still in the process of taming this beast. That is why I say to not use DCS as a base to make your decisions on hardware for your new system.

 

Numerous users are having trouble with video stuttering. There are a number of opinions on what is causing this...its still up in the air. Several of the super high end system users have expressed differing resolutions as they seem to have little trouble. Again you can search for this information here.

 

 

DCS is single threaded...it will only take advantage of one core of your microprocessor. Sound runs separately on its own thread.

 

DCSWorld is the base program and has the new graphics engine, which is in beta...so all the other modules must adapt to this...and this is ongoing...so we end up with a lot of changes and await a lot of repairs/fixes. There are 2 or 3 versions of this. Eventually ED plans on combining the two base programs into one. So, its hard to say what will finally be needed to run DCS and what DCS will have as enhancements that will require better hardware to run smoothly.

Good luck and if you need any help with the new system...lots of folks here including myself have experience building their systems and will be glad to offer any help.

Lazduc

[Specter1075]

Amazing replies, guys! Thanks a million!

 

I took a look at what AIO liquid systems go for, and the cost does not seem at all prohibitive. I see Corsair make similar set ups to the Kraken, and they all seem to have the same price-point. Roughly. Does something like the x61 have special requirements for the case?

 

Are there many inherent risks in overclocking? Is it difficult to achieve correctly? If I build a rig with adequate cooling, is there any reason to not overclock, even a little? Given that DCS favors higher individial core speeds, were I to go the route of the i7 6700K, would I be at all foolish to look at pushing it for more speed?

 

I am sold on waiting for June to see what happens with Pascal. It wont be an easy wait, but I have enough things to buy in the meantime that I can just buy my GPU(s) last.

 

So, having done a bit more research, and taking your advice into account, I have added a couple more pieces to this build. (I'll update my first post for any new comers)

 

Everyone seems to be in favor of going high power with the PSU. I like Corsair stuff, its a hold-over from years ago, but I think their Pro Series AX1200i should fit the bill. Its a gold level unit, and I think its considered top end.

 

I took a second look at the MSI Gaming M7 motherboard, and I still like it. Its well reviewed, and the other options are not a great deal cheaper. And if I can be a bit superficial, I really like the look of it. With the parts Ive chosen to far, I think everything would look pretty amazing. :)

 

Mpdugas, you make some sound arguments, and given the price point of something like the Kraken, Im sold.

 

I like Corsair's Graphite 780T tower. (I'd get black.) That said, I want to be sure everything I do, and everything I might do, is compatible with said tower. With everything listed so far, does anyone see any incompatibility issues were I to go with said case?

 

Oh! The search for a SSD continues. Demon, you were recomending a 250/512GB SSD, and another TB on a traditional drive? The Samsung SSD I had been looking at was 1TB on its own. Is there a particular reason I should avoid one so big?

Edited March 20, 2016 by Specter1075

[Demon_]

I like Corsair's Graphite 780T tower. (I'd get black.) That said, I want to be sure everything I do, and everything I might do, is compatible with said tower. With everything listed so far, does anyone see any incompatibility issues were I to go with said case?

 

Tech specs/Compatible Corsair Liquid Coolers: http://www.corsair.com/en-ca/graphite-series-780t-white-full-tower-pc-case

 

Oh! The search for a SSD continues. Demon, you were recomending a 250/512GB SSD, and another TB on a traditional drive? The Samsung SSD I had been looking at was 1TB on its own. Is there a particular reason I should avoid one so big?

 

The price.

[Demon_]

Everyone seems to be in favor of going high power with the PSU. I like Corsair stuff, its a hold-over from years ago, but I think their Pro Series AX1200i should fit the bill. Its a gold level unit, and I think its considered top end.

 

High power output as nothing to do with quality. The best: http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=14130AC0194&vpn=SS-1050XM&manufacture=SEASONIC

Corsair AX are made by Seasonic.

 

cpu= 91w

mobo= 45w

Ram (Two modules)= 6w

ssd= 2w

hd= 8w

dvd (idle)= 4w

fans= 13w

sound card= 13w

usb device= 20w

gtx980Ti sli= 500w (The Pascal will need less power)

 

702w X90% utilization= 632w.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Demon_

[Demon_]

Are there many inherent risks in overclocking? Is it difficult to achieve correctly? If I build a rig with adequate cooling, is there any reason to not overclock, even a little? Given that DCS favors higher individial core speeds, were I to go the route of the i7 6700K, would I be at all foolish to look at pushing it for more speed?

 

You don't need more than 4.5Ghz. Only 3 more fps from 4.0Ghz to 4.5ghz.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Demon_

[Demon_]

If you want to overclock with a big cooler, why not get an i5 6600K? http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12201110591&vpn=BX80662I56600K&manufacture=INTEL

$326 vs $574.

 

Specter, i have a lot of money, but i will never spend money on useless things. This is why i have a lot of money.

You want to spend $574 in a cpu who already run at 4.4Ghz, with a big expensive cooler, to overclock it at 4.5-4.6Ghz. Got it?

 

I'm sure many peoples in this forum LMAO!

Edited March 20, 2016 by Demon_

[Specter1075]

Thanks for replying, Demon.

 

This is why I am here, to ask and to learn. If people wish to laugh, that is their business. I havent bought anything yet. Its all a work in progress.

 

So then, as you explain it, the choice is between the i7 with no overclocking (and therefore no need for liquid cooling) and the i5 overclocked, correct? Ultimately, the goal is to get to 4ghz roughly, but the gain beyond that is negligible. Correct?

 

If that is what makes sense, then for me the i7 is better. I would rather spend the money on the CPU and leave out the cooling options and the overclocking for now. Again, that is not a final decision.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Specter1075

[Demon_]

This is why I am here, to ask and to learn. If people wish to laugh, that is their business. I havent bought anything yet. Its all a work in progress.

 

They don't laught about you...

 

So then, as you explain it, the choice is between the i7 with no overclocking (and therefore no need for liquid cooling) and the i5 overclocked, correct?

 

Both cpu (i5, i7) are excellent. Try the i7 at stock speed with the stock cooler and see how it goes.

 

Ultimately, the goal is to get to 4ghz roughly, but the gain beyond that is negligible. Correct?

 

This is what i see in the graph. Target for 4.5Ghz or less.

 

that is not a final decision.

 

Yes. You will learn over time.

 

About the sound card #17: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160935

[Specter1075]

Thanks. :)

 

The sound card is something easy to add later. Honestly, I have not done much research about it yet. I will read about the sound that is included with the motherboard I want, and see if it would benefit from a sound card.

[MegOhm_SD]

CoolerMaster HAF XB EVO Test bench

High air Flow...you want cooling?

Why would you want a tower...

Edited March 21, 2016 by MegOhm_SD