The Trim System and Flying Tips

[sabreman]

Yeah the wobble is due to my real life joystick returning to center and wobbling on the spring. Like I said in the video, if you had an FFB joystick (and FFB was implemented) that wouldn't be a problem.

 

This is a problem on all DCS helicopters, it's just all the other ones aren't nearly as sensitive so it's a non-issue.

[HawkDCS]

What is the hotkey to show that little red window. I have it set in options to show up in the bottom right but its not there.

 

I see it is retrimming properly but that spike at cruise its nuts.

[dotChuckles]

Yeah the wobble is due to my real life joystick returning to center and wobbling on the spring. Like I said in the video, if you had an FFB joystick (and FFB was implemented) that wouldn't be a problem.

 

This is a problem on all DCS helicopters, it's just all the other ones aren't nearly as sensitive so it's a non-issue.

 

Yes, it appears that there isn't a central position option that kills input until the stick is centered, that's all that seems to be missing.

 

Thank you for understanding. I was beginning to feel like I was stuck in a loop trying to get this problem across to the OP.

[dotChuckles]

What is the hotkey to show that little red window. I have it set in options to show up in the bottom right but its not there.

 

I see it is retrimming properly but that spike at cruise its nuts.

 

Right Control Enter

[HawkDCS]

Thanks. Ya maybe its just cause Gaz is so sensitive to input haha. Glad it works right just gotta figure out like a delay or something to stop the crazy control without FFB.

[dotChuckles]

Yep, just a little delay like in all the other helos. Will sort it right out.

[HawkDCS]

What does the Autopilot button do on the stick? Is it the master on off for AP or what? Manual says just flip to ALT or Speed and it should work but do you need to hit the AP on the stick?

 

When you hit it all the little needles in the stability control system seem to turn off.

Edited April 30, 2016 by HawkDCS

[dotChuckles]

The Ap button on the stick is an AP disconnect I think. If you hit it the needles on the AP channels park, and then when you hit it again they come back to center.

 

I will dig through the flight manual later and see what I can find. It's for the G model but, it should be similar.

[HawkDCS]

Thanks ya checked it but manual needs to be finished it seems.

 

The ALT mode for me is sketchy sometimes it works others it doesn't must be a bug. I think it works ok if you are trimmed very close to level then activate it to ALT but if you are out of whack at all it does nothing.

[Oubaas]

So are we ready to agree then that the trim system is not behaving as designed on the real aircraft? As your experience is totally contrary as to how the real aircraft works.

 

Don't start swirling your kilt in celebration just yet, MacTavish. What we're ready to admit is that the beep trim system works just like I said it did, and it's brilliant. If you can fly, you shouldn't need anything more than fine trim adjustments. I can't believe that on such an advanced, modern chopper they stooped to installing such an archaic force trim system alongside the newer, better one. They should have just stuck with the beep trim system, it's enough.

 

By the way, dotChuckles, almost my entire family originated in Pittenweem, Fife, which may be why I took up boat-building as a hobby after I retired. Yes, my roots are in Scotland, and considering how small the Scottish gene pool is, you and I are probably kin at some point along the way.

 

This has no relevance to anything, I just wanted to tell you something that you'd find horrifying.

 

:megalol:

[dotChuckles]

Interesting. Scots, ended up everywhere, we pretty much built the empire. So not horrified at all.

 

Actually the Gazelle isn't that modern, it goes back to the 60's, and bits of the hardware came off the Alouette which is a museum piece now. It's only about 10 or 15 years more recent then the Huey really.

 

The variant we have here is only modern in the sense of the weapon system it carries, the rest of it is pure mid-cold war. It's a pretty utilitarian helo to be honest. The couple of times I got to get in one it was very basic.

 

An Army Air Corps pilot scared the crap out of me in the highlands with some very low level NOE antics.

[Oubaas]

Interesting. Scots, ended up everywhere, we pretty much built the empire. So not horrified at all.

 

Actually the Gazelle isn't that modern, it goes back to the 60's, and bits of the hardware came off the Alouette which is a museum piece now. It's only about 10 or 15 years more recent then the Huey really.

 

The variant we have here is only modern in the sense of the weapon system it carries, the rest of it is pure mid-cold war. It's a pretty utilitarian helo to be honest. The couple of times I got to get in one it was very basic.

 

An Army Air Corps pilot scared the crap out of me in the highlands with some very low level NOE antics.

 

Yes, well, when you're my age, it's modern and sophisticated. All my stuff is on display in military museums now. The Gazelle makes the Huey look like a fossil, though I still love the Huey. Well, all helicopters old and new for that matter.

 

AND, I'd like to point out, that I did not resort to reading the manual. I simply kicked the tires, lit the fires, took her up and wrung her out, and figured things out all by my lonesome. Never read the manual until you're completely flummoxed.

 

:D

[dotChuckles]

Yes, well, when you're my age, it's modern and sophisticated. All my stuff is on display in military museums now. The Gazelle makes the Huey look like a fossil, though I still love the Huey. Well, all helicopters old and new for that matter.

 

AND, I'd like to point out, that I did not resort to reading the manual. I simply kicked the tires, lit the fires, took her up and wrung her out, and figured things out all by my lonesome. Never read the manual until you're completely flummoxed.

 

:D

 

Aha... well thars yer problem ;-)

 

The reason you're running out of trim in the cruise is possibly due to the beep trim system has only so much authority. You'll need to force trim and then fine tune from there.

 

I was sad to see the Gazelle go. It made a lovely sound. Which I am very happy to see that Polychop has captured perfectly.

[silvergh0st]

I have just got the Gazelle having flown the Huey quite a bit. Its an interesting challenge and I am surprised at the change in lift from very slight changes in pitch - hard to avoid porpoising.

 

I am using a Sidewinder FFB stick and the force trim system doesn't seem to work correctly. If I deflect the stick in any direction and release the force trim button the control indicator jumps further in the direction of deflection. If I then keep the stick in the same position and press and release the force trim button the control indicator jumps further in that direction. Its almost as if the system is coded for a centre sprung stick and is taking the amount of deflection as the amount of extra trim required. SimFFB seems to handle the forces fine and the force trim as long as I am not using the Gazelle force trim setup. I realise Polychop has not fully implemented their FFB system yet and look forward to further fun / enjoyment when they do. Many thanks for another fun sim to fly.

 

silver

[TrigaNZ]

There is a trimmer reset. I have mine keyboard mapped to Lctl-T, and also mapped to my CH stick.

 

Mostly I fly with the mag trim off and just use beep trim.

 

Kiwi

Edited June 4, 2016 by (C/229) Kiwi

[gospadin]

hat-based trim works fine

 

magnetic brake/force trim/etc. should be changed so that it ignores input until after the joystick has been centered. This would eliminate the huge pitch oscillations.

 

my observations exactly match dotChuckles' observations

[Bearfoot]

hat-based trim works fine

 

magnetic brake/force trim/etc. should be changed so that it ignores input until after the joystick has been centered. This would eliminate the huge pitch oscillations.

 

Some of us actually prefer it NOT to work this way, at least with other helos.

 

The Huey, for e.g., as an option (under the "Special" > "UH-1H" tab): "central position trimmer mode".

 

When selected, it behaves as you describe, i.e., after engaging the trimmer, input is ignored until the stick is centered. I, and several other folks I know, prefer to have it unselected. With a bit of practice, with the Huey at least, you can get the stick to the center position before it has too noticeable effect on the flight. I'm not saying I can do it, at least every time! But I know people who can.

 

You might ask what is the down side to having the option selected? It really depends on your control precision. Sometimes, you think you have your control centered but you do not. So the next input you give will be ignored. Depending on your situational awareness (the amount of time it takes you to realize that you input is being ignored + the amount of time it takes you figure out why) and the context of your flying (NOE, coming in for a landing, etc.), this can ruin your day. I find it more natural to try and learn to move the stick back to neutral smoothly and quickly as I set the trim rather then use this mode.

[gospadin]

Some of us actually prefer it NOT to work this way, at least with other helos.

 

The Huey, for e.g., as an option (under the "Special" > "UH-1H" tab): "central position trimmer mode".

 

When selected, it behaves as you describe, i.e., after engaging the trimmer, input is ignored until the stick is centered. I, and several other folks I know, prefer to have it unselected. With a bit of practice, with the Huey at least, you can get the stick to the center position before it has too noticeable effect on the flight. I'm not saying I can do it, at least every time! But I know people who can.

 

You might ask what is the down side to having the option selected? It really depends on your control precision. Sometimes, you think you have your control centered but you do not. So the next input you give will be ignored. Depending on your situational awareness (the amount of time it takes you to realize that you input is being ignored + the amount of time it takes you figure out why) and the context of your flying (NOE, coming in for a landing, etc.), this can ruin your day. I find it more natural to try and learn to move the stick back to neutral smoothly and quickly as I set the trim rather then use this mode.

 

Yes, but the pitch inertia on the Huey is huge and has enough mass to be stable. Gazelle really needs it because of how sensitive the controls are.