Fair comparison of 3D Vision Surround setup with Oculus Rift CV1

[Mnemonic]

Hello, dear flight simmers, just few days ago I received my Oculus Rift CV1.

I got it as early Kickstarter Supporter, so thank you Oculus team!

It's a solid piece of technology, and definitely one of the best HMDs one can get for the price.

 

Now, as a long time user of triple screen stereoscopic setup (based on NVidia 3D Vision 2 technology) and TrackIR user. I would like to compare these two visualization systems, as to what they have to offer for us, flight simmers.

 

I want to share with you this somehow a fair comparison (as much as possible)...

From one side to calibrate a bit level of expectations from current generation of VR HMDs.

And from another side to give credit to amazing technologies which are often neglected in discussions (like 3D monitors, and TrackIR) and claimed to be inferior to modern HMDs.

 

I am long term user of variety of HMDs, VR, tracking and 3D visualization systems, I've been using them from entertainment to development, of course for Flight Simming as well. I'm following scene for more than a decade. Also I supported Oculus since announcement of their Kickstarter, and own DK1 and DK2 as well as now CV1. Additionally I do have some experience flying as a passenger in small aircrafts and gliders, so I think I have some reasonable experience to which I can compare "immersion" and "feeling of flight" obtained from simulators.

 

I believe fair comparison is possible as both systems are stereoscopic, wide-FOV and tracked in 6DOF.

Modern HMDs are praised for these three qualities, but they are not the only way to obatin such experience.

 

This is a picture of my Triple Screen setup, I use three Asus VG-278HR 27” screens:

 

 

 

Photos made from a distance, side monitors are a bit inclined, and envelop the vision when I sit at the desk.

 

And here is the Rift, ready to go in DCS, Thank you Eagle Dynamics for wonderful implementation of Rift in DCS World!

 

 

 

 

First, these are measurments of FOV:

 

 

1. I measured my triple screen system from the sitting position as 129 x 30 degree FOV, to compare it with Rift I converted it into 132.4 degree diagonal FOV.

 

2. I tried to visually identify borders of the image that I see through Rift, and compare it FOV wise with my 3 monitor setup. I was trying to do exact measurements, but of course I could mistake for few degrees.

 

3. I have a very nicely fitted and adjusted Rift, to the level that it sits tightly and "comfortably".

 

4. Semi-Transparent image is the DCS output image from the Rift (I believe it's one of the eyes perspective). In this regard I can confirm that I don't see full rendered image, but just the portion of it through lenses of Rift, and "visible" part of the image is off-set to the side.

 

5. Background triple-monitor image is a screenshot from the same mission in DCS. Again, here I made emphasis comparing FOV.

 

 

 

Second, I put together this comparison analysis:

 

 

Few notes here:

 

1. I try to keep it objective

 

2. I hope we will see more and more support for the Rift in the future. Even now it's quite great!

 

3. By spectators I mean friends and family, which can join you for a virtual ride, or just want to look how you play.

With triple 3D monitor setup, they can wear additional pair of glasses and see exactly what you see.

 

4. Triple monitor setup has another flaw - monitor bezels, but with stereoscopic 3D enabled, bezel is on the another depth level than the scene, so it doesn't bother as much as in 2D, additionally bezel correction can be anabled, growing rendered resolution, in my case, to 6000 x 1080 (in case of 3D - per eye).

 

5. I don't compare "Comfort" levels, because it's very subjective, however to me using triple-screen setup is more comfortable, also because I see what happens around in my room, and when my little son is close-by and asking me something I can easily interact with him :) Also, worth to mention that triple screen setup is in general more tolerable to frame drops, however with latest addition of Asynchronous Time Warp in DCS World it is lesser an issue with Rift as well (less than it was before).

 

6. I won't compare "Immersion" because both system offer a bit different experience, but in the dogfights I do prefer TrackIR, as a competitive tool, which doesn't strain my neck that much. Clarity of the image plays big role to me, when it comes to Fligh Simming, and 3D monitors offer me that. True scale is something you get from Rift out-of-the-box, but it is possible to adjust and setup on 3D monitor system as well.

 

Fair to notice that 3D Vision Surround was quite expensive few years ago, comparing to Rift now. However here I wanted to make accents on quality that both systems have to offer.

 

 

 

Big cheers to lefuneste01 for his wonderful 3D Vision fixes for our beloved DCS [link] and several other flight-sims, because of you users of 3D Vision (and 3D Vision 2) can enjoy simming in 3D without atifacts and with good stereoscopic settings! Unfortunately there is not so much love for 3D screens from official developers, but such mods fix the situation.

 

 

Hope someone will find this study of mine interesting and informative.

Cheers! :pilotfly:

 

Also, here are few triple-screen screenshots from different flight simulators (re-scaled to reasonable size), if you want to see original rez, let me know. I love the triple-screen camera implementation in DCS, with inclined monitors it gives corrected (not stretched) perspective, especially valuable when using stereoscopic 3D.

 

DCS 1.5

 

DCS 2.0

 

IL-2 BoS

 

Rise of Flight

Edited May 10, 2016 by Mnemonic

[hansangb]

So you fly with the 3D glasses, is that right?

[Chivas]

That's an awesome setup, and Nvidia's new gpus will allow you to wrap the outside displays more without losing perspective, with a nice increase in performance.

 

That said, as good as it will look, you will still be looking a collection of image boxes in your room. VR takes you out of your room, and places you in the VR world. The far lower res of the headset is soon forgotten, in most cases, but I'm still not sure of the current consumer versions of VR are good enough for spotting the distant objects that are so critical in flight sims. It won't effect me so much, as I can no longer see the distant objects anyway, and just wing up with those that can.

[Mnemonic]

Yes hansangb, NVidia 3D Vision 2 glasses, look like every other 3d glasses.

 

 

All three screens are stereoscopic, for the sake of clarity I photographed them in 2D mode. Obviously, system can be easily used without glasses in 2D at 144 Hz.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Mnemonic

[Mnemonic]

Thanks Chivas!

 

That said, as good as it will look, you will still be looking a collection of image boxes in your room. VR takes you out of your room, and places you in the VR world. The far lower res of the headset is soon forgotten, in most cases...

 

I have both systems (Rift and triple 3D screen) and use them both, I tried to not be poetic in my comparison, and make it rather pragmatic. Down to the ground, for us, flight simmers. :)

 

But if you want a feeling description for a proper triple 3D screen setup - imagine a huge window with high fidelity image where simulation is happening, everything inside is three dimensional and cockpit feels like within your reach.

Plus you keep aware of your surroundings, and you can have your favorite cup of coffee with you.

 

but I'm still not sure of the current consumer versions of VR are good enough for spotting the distant objects that are so critical in flight sims.

It's not, far from it, but flying helicopters is pretty cool!

[hansangb]

Hmmm, I can see 3D making the difference. But can you comment on how you can perceive speed in VR vis 3D monitors? Is it similar?

[Mnemonic]

Hmmm, I can see 3D making the difference. But can you comment on how you can perceive speed in VR vis 3D monitors? Is it similar?

 

3D makes a big difference when approaching on a helo to LZ, when estimating the distance left. Or in close-range dogfights, which is happening in ROF more often than DCS :)

But all DCS cockpits look gorgeous in 3D.

 

Question of speed is hard to answer, feeling is probably quite similar. Lateral movement, close to the ground feels better in HMD due to it having a bit bigger vertical FOV, but it depends on the helo, if it's a bubble canopy or not.

In HMD it's easier to get motion sick due to violent rotations.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Mnemonic

[Vivoune]

Interesting, thank you for that detailed and fair comparison Mnemonic, not many people are using multi screen 3D.

 

If you're doing missions, and are trying to be effective but not concerned with being competitive nor need the room awareness (alone in the house for exemple), do you still prefer the 3D screens clarity over the OR immersion?

[Mnemonic]

If you're doing missions, and are trying to be effective but not concerned with being competitive nor need the room awareness (alone in the house for exemple), do you still prefer the 3D screens clarity over the OR immersion?

 

It's hard to tell, depends on the mood I use either 3D screens or OR.

I have to play bit more with OR to see all pros and cons.

3D surround in DCS with proper in-game 3-camera setup is quite immersive.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Mnemonic

[j0nx]

I currently use 3D Surround and have used triple screen since matrox first released TH2G 10 years ago. My rift will be here in 2 or 3 weeks and will report back in here on how these two solutions compare to each other. Thanks for your write up mnemonic!

[Asset]

Trying to revive this old thread as I have several questions regarding this technology.

 

I have a CV1 and the immersion is perfect. But resolution and performance with the new 2.1 sucks. When I fly in my squadron we take it seriously and I feel like I have trouble performing in finding enemies or reading gauges/pushing buttons. I basically can only do it using zoom. Also the image looks like its two images not perfectly aligned, making moving objects blurry. I usually have 45 frames in the Rift in DCS 1.5. The new 2.1 killed my frames, now down to 25-28 on the ground at Nellis, where in 2D I have >100fps.

However I do not want to miss 3D, as it is so much better, especially for helos, my secret love.

Also with the Rift you cannot see the outside world. What is great for immersion is not so great in a real scenario with my squadron, as I have to check several papers (kneeboard res still a bit low sometimes)

 

So now to my questions:

- is the depth perception with Nvidia as good as with the CV1?

- The fps with Nvidia 3d will always be half of what I have in 2d?

- Do I need a special monitor? What are the requirements? Why does it have to be a 144Hz monitor? If my PC setup is only capable of 100fps in 2d I will get 50fps in 3d, so why would I need a 144Hz monitor?

-I would like to do a two monitor setup, with my 23' touchscreen as the cockpit, running SDA software for most buttons, MFDs, CDU,... . This screen is not 144Hz, so will this setup be possible?

 

Headtracking:

I have a TrackIR5 which I use with the track clip that you have to attach to a baseball hat. I do not own the click that gets attached to the side of a headset. I wind the tracking not to be as precise I which. I feels shaky. Even when I up the smoothness I always feel like I cannot aim my view precisely. And I am limited in how far up I can look, because it loses track.

Can anyone who has tried both tracking clips give an opinion on which is better.

 

Thank you

[Jabbers_]

Not sure I agree with your FOV on those images for the 3 monitors.

 

 

In this image (and the others) You can clearly see the pilot, and behind him to your left, and the window past where your shoulder would be to the right. This would be > 180 degrees. Am I missing something?

[Mule]

Great stuff. That looks like a sweet setup.