VR Performance Question (HTC Vive)

[Bluelight]

Hi,

 

I have read some posts about how DCS World 1.5 doesn't use much of the CPU or something and some people have a hard time getting a steady 90fps even on lower settings. I am wondering if this is true and is going to be fixed (i heard it may be better in the 2.0 alpha) or am I doing something wrong?

 

I usually end up in reprojection while using my Vive. I have tried medium settings, turning shadows down, mirrors are off, turning down draw distance. Crazy thing is I can get around 180fps sometimes in non VR mode looking at the cockpit but in VR it is 45 (reprojecting.)

 

My rig is here:

 

Virtual Reality: HTC Vive

HOTAS: Saitek X52 Pro

CPU: i7-950 Overclocked to 4ghz

Cooler: Noctua NH-D14

MB: ASRock x58 Extreme

GPU: EVGA GTX 970 FTW

RAM: 24GB G Skill Sniper DDR3 1600

PSU: EVGA 650-GQ (650 watts)

OS: Windows 10

 

 

I plan to upgrade to the GTX 1070 soon but I heard also some saying that even the 1080 had these same issues.

 

Thanks

[uri_ba]

For me it's even worst (vive w/970).

When I move my head too fast, the left and right eyes are rendered on different positions giving a "cross eyed" nausea.

 

I've started installing 2.0 (which seem to take forever).

I'll give it a test later today and report back.

[Bluelight]

Yep I know exactly what u mean. I saw that too and the fps drops to less than 30.i don't understand the performance issues it seems it is something that can be fixed maybe with a patch. I look forward to hearing about 2.0.

[Gundark]

Better CPU would help a little, but if you can, you should try AMD card. It works better with VR, but how much better you should verify yourself. Anything lower form nVidia 980Ti is known to cause nausea.

[Bluelight]

Better CPU would help a little, but if you can, you should try AMD card. It works better with VR, but how many better you should verify yourself. Anything lower form nVidia 980Ti is known to cause nausea.

 

Thx for the suggestion but I have to disagree with that. As i said before, people here have said even a 1080 doesn't seem to help. And considering the cpu usage uses only something like two cores... I think the cpu isn't a huge issue either. Of course a 6700k would be better but not by much on this game as u said so I agree with that.

 

As for whether AMD is better, I'm not going to switch out my graphics card for one game. Maybe this game is more optimized for AMD but switching to AMD is out of the question for me. It seems like u are saying AMD is better for VR all around. Considering I have good experience with other VR games so far, nah.

 

If I can get 180fps in nonVR mode then this seems more like a lack of VR optimization than any sort of hardware issue.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Bluelight

[Bluelight]

I'm using 1.5.2 and is giving me pretty high frame rates.

I'm the ambassador of the 1.5.2 version QUOTE]

 

Are you using a gtx 970 also? I'm not sure what version I have but how could I get the same version as you? I downloaded the normal 1.5 from the ED website but I also saw one that said 1.5 beta... Is that what u are using? Maybe I should try that but thought the 1.5 beta was old and 1.5 was the current release.

[Gundark]

If you are using 1080p resolution you are becoming CPU limited. Since game use only two cores it's important to have high IPC wich OPs CPU lack. Faster GPU will only incrise this ( you;ll have less benefit ). Now, the thing with gtx970 is it's serial nature, and no amount of optimization will help. With 1070 thing is a little better but not drastic. On the other side AMD async engine is god given for VR with proper implementation. You should really try it somewhere and then decide, because fps don't tell the whole story.

[Bluelight]

If you are using 1080p resolution you are becoming CPU limited. Since game use only two cores it's important to have high IPC wich OPs CPU lack. Faster GPU will only incrise this ( you;ll have less benefit ). Now, the thing with gtx970 is it's serial nature, and no amount of optimization will help. With 1070 thing is a little better but not drastic. On the other side AMD async engine is god given for VR with proper implementation. You should really try it somewhere and then decide, because fps don't tell the whole story.

 

Are you trying to say that my CPU is bottlenecking my GPU? This is not true at all!! First off, my CPU is not running at 100% during this game which it would have to be to bottleneck. Nor is it running at 100% during any other game that actually utilizes all cores. I think this is what you are trying to say with all the IPC talk.

 

As far as the IPC, I don't know about that but are you suggesting that an I7-6700k would be a drastic improvement in fps? I am pretty sure the improvement (considering this game is only using 2 cores) would be marginal.

 

No offense but you sound like an AMD fanboy trying to claim that it is the only way to go for VR. I have already invested in my Nvidia card recently and am using an upgrade program to go from 970 to 1070 so I will not, regardless of how it performs on this game, be switching anytime soon.

 

I can't justify switching to AMD just for one game considering I haven't had an issue so far with any others in VR or otherwise.

 

My CPU is fine for now as well, I know it could be better but it is overclocked to 4ghz and is NOT bottlenecking the GPU at all. I feel strongly that if this game utilized 4 cores instead of 2, this wouldn't be a problem at all in VR.

 

I also have heard that in reality, it only uses 1 core for graphics related stuff and the other is only for sound... so in reality single core.

 

Thanks for your suggestion to solve this by "switching to AMD" but I can't take that advice and welcome suggestions from others.

[uri_ba]

I'm trying to figure out what is the problem on my rig.

I've explicitly turned Vsync off on the nvidia panel.

Only got 90fps looking straight up.

The second something is I'm the frame, fps drops to 45 and stay there. When I look around I might get down to 42 frames before fps drops and locks on 30.

 

So something triggers vsync and I can't figure it out.

 

More on that, In the VR stream Matt had done two weeks ago, he had shown the "new VR settings" yet it's not in 2.0.2. is it something planned for 2.0.3 or I'm just missing an option?

[SkateZilla]

I'm trying to figure out what is the problem on my rig.

I've explicitly turned Vsync off on the nvidia panel.

Only got 90fps looking straight up.

The second something is I'm the frame, fps drops to 45 and stay there. When I look around I might get down to 42 frames before fps drops and locks on 30.

 

So something triggers vsync and I can't figure it out.

 

More on that, In the VR stream Matt had done two weeks ago, he had shown the "new VR settings" yet it's not in 2.0.2. is it something planned for 2.0.3 or I'm just missing an option?

 

 

 

Those will likely be in the next patch.

 

1.5.4 just got major VR Improvements.

[Bluelight]

I'm trying to figure out what is the problem on my rig.

I've explicitly turned Vsync off on the nvidia panel.

Only got 90fps looking straight up.

The second something is I'm the frame, fps drops to 45 and stay there. When I look around I might get down to 42 frames before fps drops and locks on 30.

 

So something triggers vsync and I can't figure it out.

 

More on that, In the VR stream Matt had done two weeks ago, he had shown the "new VR settings" yet it's not in 2.0.2. is it something planned for 2.0.3 or I'm just missing an option?

 

I can help you figure some of this out. The reason you are getting 45 fps (just like i am) is because you have reprojection enabled on the Vive. What the vive does is anything that drops too far below 90 fps, it cuts it in half to 45 fps while maintaining (supposedly) the 90 fps movement with headtracking only. So its like your head moves at 90 but everything else is at 45 I guess.

 

If you turn off reprojection it would likely be much worst so I wouldnt... but the news of major VR improvements coming is exactly what I was wanting to know about.

[Bluelight]

Those will likely be in the next patch.

 

1.5.4 just got major VR Improvements.

 

This is great news and exactly what I was looking for. If they are doing major VR improvements in a patch that should be great. Any idea when this will drop or can I do a beta for it now?

[uri_ba]

It's a mess, I only have space on my SSD for either 1.5 or 2.0 so switching back and forth isn't fun for me.

 

In addition, I have 7 devices, all of them need to be reconfigured per plane per version. (Which is why I hardly play in DCS lately).

 

So I guess I'll be waiting for 2.0.3 to be pushed out And start saving up for an 1080

[Bluelight]

I should probably apologize partially to Gundark.. when I said DCS 1.5 is not bottlenecking my CPU.. I was right and wrong. Originally when looking, my CPU usage was about 17% max. Upon looking closer, it seems it is 17% of 8 threads / 4 cores. DCS World is using one core (the one that deals with graphics) at about 95% quite a bit.

 

This is not an issue with my CPU as I tested many other games just now that utilize 4 cores and there is no bottleneck at all. This is engine bottleneck I guess you would call it... poorly optimized to take advantage of the CPU. I guarantee most processors would see the same type of behavior.

 

This is what I think (and hope) they are addressing. Even if it doesn't use hyperthreading thats fine.. 4 cores would run much better. Another thread claims that it can use 4 cores but I haven't figured that out yet.

[uri_ba]

Bluelight,

try disableing HT from the BIOS.

this will force your CPU down to using "only" 4 cores, but it might give you the little nudge of extra CPU power.

 

I've disabled mine and it looks maginally better in 2.0.

I've managed to install 1.5.4 in parallel, but I have another issue there. every time I change a setting there, and press OK, it returns to the hangar and shows me nothing there... :|

[Bluelight]

Bluelight,

try disableing HT from the BIOS.

this will force your CPU down to using "only" 4 cores, but it might give you the little nudge of extra CPU power.

 

I've disabled mine and it looks maginally better in 2.0.

I've managed to install 1.5.4 in parallel, but I have another issue there. every time I change a setting there, and press OK, it returns to the hangar and shows me nothing there... :|

 

Ok good idea, I'll try it without HT next time I am gonna try VR. If 1.5.4 is the version that is supposed to have better optimized VR, let me know what kind of results you get compared to regular 1.5 (once you get the other bugs squared away I mean.) I would like to try it if it is better.

[uri_ba]

Ok good idea, I'll try it without HT next time I am gonna try VR. If 1.5.4 is the version that is supposed to have better optimized VR, let me know what kind of results you get compared to regular 1.5 (once you get the other bugs squared away I mean.) I would like to try it if it is better.

 

I don't have "Normal" 1.5 installed, because I don't fly online, I don't really need it.

 

performance is lower in 1.5.4 then it is in 2.0.2 (FPS is the same on similar areas, but 2.0 seems more stable - or maybe it's just the tracking jumping around?), but it's not a fair comparison, as NTTR has much less objects then Caucasus map.

 

Flying in the Poti area yealds, ~35fps on the vive for me. choppy and annoying, but better then nothing, it's possible.

 

(only tried P51 so far in 1.5.4 and P51 and M2K in 2.0)

 

--- Update ---

Managed to get 45 stable in low altitude in free flight poti in the P51. By low altitude I mean weaving and boring between the city buildings low.

 

I've OC'd the 970 to its thermal limit using MSI afterburner (I have a second 750 blocking the airflow, so it's only a mild over clock +150mhz on the boost, pushing it to max 91 deg)

 

Then I've tweaked some settings in DCS. Lowering MSAA to x4, shadows to "flat only" but pushed render distance to far with terraintex high and Tex on med.

 

I'll give it a run on 2.0 as well and if everything would be the same I'll post my options.lua

Edited June 25, 2016 by uri_ba

[Bluelight]

I was messing with 1.5 last night in VR (caucasus) and it seems if I am in an area with a lot of towns below me, its pretty much 45fps if I'm lucky. High altitude though or over an area with no towns it seems I can get 90fps. After playing with a bunch of settings it seems not much of it really affects the fps that I can tell besides shadows. I turned on flat shadows on both cockpit and terrain. For the terrain I think its fine but I don't notice shadows at all in my cockpit with flat turned on.

 

I think I am going to bite the bullet and spring for NTTR while it is on sale and try 2.0. A lot of this (aside from the obvious fact that DCS is not utilizing CPU cores) could be that the caucasus map is just very poorly optimized also.

 

I noticed if I fly over a town very low and rotate my plane 45 degrees looking straight down in VR, the FPS goes to 90 because it is only focusing on that immediate area. But when you are looking at multiple towns on the map at a distance it is dropping to 45.

[M1Combat]

Uri - Turn AA off completely.

 

Actually just turn everything off and low completely. Then start turning things back on one at a time and test which ones have impact that takes you under 90FPS.

[uri_ba]

I'm testing low alt over town most of the time (p51 "free flight over poti") this give me a rough benchmark. Going back to land is the real problem, with fps initially dropping to 20 in the flare. With playing with the tree and gras radius I have it back to 45, which is good enough (even with 1.5 multiplier).

 

I do have AA at x2 and MSAA off, shadows on flat only. However, I did decide to "bite the bullet" and turn on HDR, just because starting into the sun without it breaks too much of the immersion (same as no shadows at all).

 

I've yet to to test 2.0.2

[npole]

You can't do (always) >90fps .. neither with TWO 1080.. :) ...it's not because of your specs, but because of the bad optimized engine. There's nothing you can do.. the devs must fix it.

[Bluelight]

You can't do (always) >90fps .. neither with TWO 1080.. :) ...it's not because of your specs, but because of the bad optimized engine. There's nothing you can do.. the devs must fix it.

 

Yeah thats def the way it seems.. despite the people who claim they get "steady 90 fps all the time" with the Vive. No offense to them but I can't believe that based on the evidence I have seen about how the game works and what everybody else says. :)

 

Right now I am just crossing my fingers that something will be better in one of the new versions. I think 1.5.4 drops this friday if no issues.

[Bluelight]

I'm testing low alt over town most of the time (p51 "free flight over poti") this give me a rough benchmark. Going back to land is the real problem, with fps initially dropping to 20 in the flare. With playing with the tree and gras radius I have it back to 45, which is good enough (even with 1.5 multiplier).

 

I do have AA at x2 and MSAA off, shadows on flat only. However, I did decide to "bite the bullet" and turn on HDR, just because starting into the sun without it breaks too much of the immersion (same as no shadows at all).

 

I've yet to to test 2.0.2

 

What exactly does flat shadows do in relation to the cockpit? When I turn it on I don't notice any real shadows anymore which kind of sucks but from my tests, shadows seems to be almost the only thing that really slams the FPS in a bad way. I haven't noticed much difference with the AA settings or HDR on or off.

 

Are you doing that pixel density trick with the vive we were talking about on the other thread? I was wondering if you figured out that it does not hurt the fps. I was sort of scared to try it without getting the rest of the settings figured out first but how much of a difference do you notice at 1.5?

[Bluelight]

Bluelight,

decided to reply to your inquiries in this thread as it's more appropriate :).

 

 

The Tbilisi area, I'm good about 90%+ of the time, as you can see from the video's I've posted "Tbilisi River Run". This is the area I've done most of my flying to date.

 

But, Batumi, is more so in the "reprojection" territory and even more so when my field of view completely entails only the urban/city developed areas of Batumi. While the reprojection dose keep the fps locked at no lower than 45fps 90%+ of the time in this area, which is playable, it does causes a "ghosting effect". Actually I didn't notice the ghosting effect until mentioned by others on the forums.

Why Tbilisi is mostly 90fps and Batumi is less :dunno:, we'll have to ask Wags or Chizh I guess...

 

At times, on the Tbilisi airfields I do get the reprojection drop also, but I've not been able to recreate this consistently in the same manner and place yet, but at Batumi it's consistent. So I do not know what the root cause is. But I'm sure the Eagle Dynamics team is knowledgeable of the issue and it's on someone's honey do list.

 

And as stated, shadows in VR are a fps killer, plane and simple..:cry:

 

No, haven't messed with MSI afterburner yet for stats, just not enough time, but it on my list of things I might get too. :juggle:

I'm using 1.5.3 release version, exclusively, although again, haven't got to messing with the others yet, but on my list.

And haven't tried any multiplayer in VR yet...

To be honest, I enjoy doing "pleasure flights" so much in the World of DCS in virtual reality, it's taking me forever to get to exploring all the other DCS World things and experiences with my limited DCS World time!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ok, just tried the "renderTargetMultiplier : x.x" edit of the "steamvr.vrsettings" file, and wow, does it work!!:thumbsup:

Man I can just about make out the bikini babes on the beach!!

 

But, it is a huge performance hit. With it activated my fps in the Tbilisi area in now a very solid reprojection locked 45fps. But it is still very doable, enough that I'll likely keep it activated, as the cockpits and DCS World scenery are really beautiful with it on.

In the Batumi area, it'll drop below the 45fps on occasions, but mostly 45fps, so it's still usable.

 

I've tried 1.5, 2.0 and 2.5 variables.

2.5 is a no-go,

2.0 is OK for performance, but the cockpit and scenery are just beautiful.

1.5 is better performance, visuals are still very much better than 1.0.

I'll likely settle somewhere between 1.5 & 2.0 after playing around with it.

 

 

Awesome to hear and thanks for the response! Are you running high medium or low type of settings? Don't want to bother you but I would love to know what settings you are using to I can sort of see if thats what I have already.

 

One thing I was curious about were these Starway textures I keep hearing about. Are they helpful or hurtful to the fps or do you know?

 

I figured they would be bad cause they are higher resolution but maybe they are better optimized.. someone suggested using them with VR but I dont think he has VR so Im not sure of how it would affect the fps. :)

[Bluelight]

Hey guys just a heads up... I bought NTTR this weekend and I tried 2.0 in VR finally. I have tried the vegas tour and what I am finding is that no matter how low my settings are, I am getting 30fps just sitting in the huey before even taking off. The big city is slamming my fps bad in 2.0. I have messed with so many settings but nothing seems to really help it. It just seems those big cities are what is doing it for me and considering I just paid $49.99 for Vegas... I have to say i am pretty down in the dumps about it.

 

I wish there was some way to get atleast a solid 45fps in reprojections with this.

 

As it stands now, it seems 1.5 is working better than 2.0.