What would a real M-2000C pilot do?

[Fred00]

This thread is kind of related to my other thread about air-to-air tactics. I'm speficically wondering about the situation in the instant action mission "Missiles" (I think it's called). How would a real Mirage pilot tackle the situation presented in this mission? That is, head-on against four bandits (two Mig-29s and two Mig-23s). The reason I'm asking is that it seems like a suicide mission to me (yes, I understand that this is mainly a mission for quick action, but anyway). What would be the correct way to tackle this situation? Would it be to break away and head down into the weeds as soon as you're locked up? Would a real pilot stay long enough to get into firing range of the S530, launch it and then head into the weeds? Then try to reaquire the enemy from below.

 

What do you think?

[ZHeN]

2xM2Ks vs 4xMigs - real pilot should call for cavalry :D

[jojo]

Well that mission is a bit hard. The best result I get is:

- put my wingman in column formation

- ask him to engage MiG 23 wingman

- full burner up to M1.3/ 30000ft

- shoot on MiG 23 leader around 18-19Nm

- crank: speed break down to M0.9, dive to keep target in look up and open trajectory - let's say to the right - by 50 degrees. Monitor VTB to keep target locked until impact (you're probably down to 20000-25000ft)

- pump by the right and regain altitude to prepare for MiG 29 coming in around 35000ft. In the while M-2000 wingman should have taken care of MiG 23 wingman and cover me.

- recommit by left turn, engage MiG 29 leader.

 

If you're lucky, he might be targeting your wingman, arriving by his side, out of his radar coverage, he won't react until you STT and shoot.

 

Monitor your RWR and assess if you engage MiG 29 with Magic or run.

In case of missile launch warning by your wingman break and dive using chaff.

[droopy114]

Well that mission is a bit hard. The best result I get is:

- put my wingman in column formation

- ask him to engage MiG 23 wingman

- full burner up to M1.3/ 30000ft

- shoot on MiG 23 leader around 18-19Nm

- crank: speed break down to M0.9, dive to keep target in look up and open trajectory - let's say to the right - by 50 degrees. Monitor VTB to keep target locked until impact (you're probably down to 20000-25000ft)

- pump by the right and regain altitude to prepare for MiG 29 coming in around 35000ft. In the while M-2000 wingman should have taken care of MiG 23 wingman and cover me.

- recommit by left turn, engage MiG 29 leader.

 

If you're lucky, he might be targeting your wingman, arriving by his side, out of his radar coverage, he won't react until you STT and shoot.

 

Monitor your RWR and assess if you engage MiG 29 with Magic or run.

In case of missile launch warning by your wingman break and dive using chaff.

 

Yes, more or less the same tactic and it work.....or not. If you open this mission in the ME, you can see AI is set to "random", so it depend the AI skill.Personally, I removed the 2 Mig23, and sometimes I change the other flight to Su27, Mig21,etc.....or the scenario (2 VS 1),good for training.

[gavagai]

The wingman doesn't do anything useful in this mission. I can ask him to engage the bandits ten times and he just follows me around like a baby duckling.

 

I ended up editing the mission to put the wingman in a separate flight, and then he is helpful (attached here).

 

Real pilot with his life on the line bugs out in that situation before combat ever begins. If you have Fox-3 capability it is a different choice.

Caucasus M-2000C Missile Combat.miz

[mattebubben]

And it also depends on the scenario backround/orders.

 

For example if the mirages are just out on a CAP or are alone near enemy airspace when the migs show up they would likely avoid combat /run

(as there would not be any severe consequences for them to do so)

 

But if the two mirages where escorting other aircraft (especially if they aircraft they are escorting is to slow to run)

then the Mirages would likely engage and do what ever they could to buy time

(and depending on the importance of whatever they were escorting they might go as far as to be ready to die to buy that time)

 

But with nothing important to protect or orders to do otherwise

most pilots would retreat and wait for backup

rather then doing an attack with such bad odds.

(and that is also how most pilots tend to be trained in modern times)

 

Since there is no point in wasting Pilots and Aircraft without reason.

Edited July 5, 2016 by mattebubben

[jojo]

The wingman doesn't do anything useful in this mission. I can ask him to engage the bandits ten times and he just follows me around like a baby duckling.

 

I ended up editing the mission to put the wingman in a separate flight, and then he is helpful (attached here).

 

Real pilot with his life on the line bugs out in that situation before combat ever begins. If you have Fox-3 capability it is a different choice.

 

If you edit your wingman skill to "excellent" he can be useful.

I assign him the trailing MiG 23 by:

- locking it on radar

- use "wingman - attack my bandit" command

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

If you are not using easy comms, you have to select a radio first before giving orders to your wingman.

[gavagai]

If you are not using easy comms, you have to select a radio first before giving orders to your wingman.

 

You mean comm1 or comm2? I already tried that. I hope you meaning something different!:helpsmilie:

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

If by comm1 and comm2 you refer to a switch on the left panel, then no I wasn't talking about them.

 

In the key binding option menu you will find two lines called "Main UHF radio" & "Auxiliary V/UHF radio" IIRC. You'll find the appropriate keyboard shortcuts there.

 

Next you have to select one of them with the shortcut (you can bind them to your joystick/throttle) to talk to your wingman. Not sure if it works only with the main radio aka UHF or also with the aux radio.

 

Anyway, your wingman should copy your orders if he get them.

[gavagai]

No joy.

 

I can talk to towers, awacs, texaco, pretty much everything on the map except for my wingmen. I thought it was a bug or something WIP for the 2000C.

[PiedDroit]

No joy.

 

I can talk to towers, awacs, texaco, pretty much everything on the map except for my wingmen. I thought it was a bug or something WIP for the 2000C.

Try selecting the auxiliary radio, it worked a while ago, maybe it still does.

[jojo]

Yes, AUX radio, channel 1.

 

Or manually on MAIN radio on 251.00MHz

[gavagai]

Did that. The wingman will check-in but doesn't respond to other commands.

 

I'm just going to wait for future patches and hope it is cleared up. Thank you for your help.