Please read and help me/us all

[GGTharos]

What? Without transmitting? You need some coffee.

 

 

Really? Try tracking someone in HoJ and ask'em if they get a warning :)

[GGTharos]

F-15 has to turn his radar ON before locking on HOJ. Therefore, while the lock itself is silent, the F-15 is not. And by looking at our Bereyoza we can estimate the range to that F-15.

 

... And promptly forget about it after a moment's beep on your RWR, then silence for a few minutes. This is precicely what happens.

[S77th-GOYA]

Really? Try tracking someone in HoJ and ask'em if they get a warning :)

 

Yes, really. Try locking a jammer without transmitting.

[Pilotasso]

Jamming in Su/Mig is the closest to stealth flying your gonna get in LOMAC as long as your radar remains inactive there is no way an F15 can tell your range ,any decent pilot wont stay at the same altitude when trying this method so working out range by locking on the strobe is pointless until its getting close. The Su/Mig pilot will know its enemys range through the beroza and can act accordingly to range ,when launch range is near trying to duck 'hopefully' below radar and disengaging jammers is a good tactic that does work well especially in a crowded enviroment .The key is to remain with the upperhand against the F15s superior radar and the best way is effective ECM.

 

This is the best post on this thread!

 

Actualy Frostie is not entirely correct. Untill you fly the F-15 enough for gaining experience with it and aplying the right moves its possible to estimate range to targets and get kills even before the radar burns through to give him any warning. Trying to hide the range to an F-15 by using ECM under 40 miles is a deadly mistake, because that will soon come close to 20 miles in seconds And an experienced F-15 player will know when to fire. Having said that, this denies the F-15's multi engagement capability so you will basicaly sacrificing 1 plane to get 1 F-15 with another plane.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Actualy Frostie is not entirely correct.

Actually, Frost1e is entirely correct.

Trying to hide the range to an F-15 by using ECM under 40 miles is a deadly mistake,…

As a pilot of F-15, how do you know he is under 40 miles while he is using his ECM? The answer is, you don’t.

…because that will soon come close to 20 miles in seconds

That is pure speculation and often false assumption because you simply don’t know how far he is from you to begin with. Is he 40 miles or 20 miles far from you. How do you know?

And an experienced F-15 player will know when to fire.

Based on what data?

Having said that, this denies the F-15's multi engagement capability so you will basicaly sacrificing 1 plane to get 1 F-15 with another plane.

Which one are you going to engage first? The left or the right one? The left one might be F-polling. Or it is the right one that is F-polling? F polling at 20 miles, your AIM-120 might not have enough energy to even get to him?

[Pilotasso]

Actually, Frost1e is entirely correct.

You can denny it as much as you can, you wont negate the kills I did HOJ with good distance estimation. Nor you are entitled to own the truth Specialy if you dont even fly the F-15 anyway.

 

As a pilot of F-15, how do you know he is under 40 miles while he is using his ECM? The answer is, you don’t.

That is pure speculation and often false assumption because you simply don’t know how far he is from you to begin with. Is he 40 miles or 20 miles far from you. How do you know?

Based on what data?

 

You are mistaken but I wont bother answer you since you dont want to hear. Judging from previous answers you gave and some animosity torwards my posts I dont see you grasp a dose of reality, ever.

[GGTharos]

As I already said ... range data is not difficult to get if you know what you're doing.

 

Pilotasso has it exactly right. Furthermore, all I -really- need to do is stare at the TDC and wait for you to pop into view, then I know you're 15nm away and I time things approapriately. Under the -worst- of circumstances, that is my last resort ;)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

You can denny it as much as you can, you wont negate the kills I did HOJ with good distance estimation. Nor you are entitled to own the truth Specialy if you dont even fly the F-15 anyway.

What am I denying? You claim you can estimate target range while he is using his ECM? How? You ask him to turn the ECM off, and then on again? How do you estimate the target distance while his ECM is active?

 

You as well as I scored hits on HOJ, there is no question about that. Su-27 and MiG-29 were originally designed to work with GCI where range to target was obtained through data link. And then you can succesfully launch in HOJ. However, with no GCI, no AWACS, how do you in F-15 estimate target range? Ask newbie to turn his ECM off?

 

You are mistaken but I wont bother answer you since you dont want to hear.

Well, I will not comment on how wrong I am. I will just ask for facts showing that I am wrong. Where are the facts showing that my statements are mistaken?

 

Judging from previous answers you gave and some animosity torwards my posts I dont see you grasp a dose of reality, ever.

No comment.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Well, I will not comment on how wrong I am. I will just ask for facts showing that I am wrong. Where are the facts showing that my statements are mistaken?

 

Well, for starters, you cannot estimate range to a radar threat with Beroza. It, just like other radar warning systems, gives threat type, bearing, and signal strength only. You can estimate range through signal strength, but its a very rough estimate...and certainly not enough to target a weapon.

 

The only real range you need to know, against a jamming aircraft, is if its close enough to be within launch parameters for a HOJ shot. I'd give you a step-by-step of how I think these guys are accomplishing that (pretty simple really, if you know how to operate your radar while in standby), but I think they're keeping it a secret for a reason. ;) The best way you can prove them wrong is to go up against them with your jammer on and see if you don't end up getting toasted by an F-15 that only snap-shots you with a brief radar sweep.

[GGTharos]

The F-15 radar provides some pretty good ways of estimating a jammer range ... the entire procedure requires about 30 sec of time, and you have a range. From there on, it's all about timing ;) It can be done with the strobe locked in STT (more accurate) or without ... but it isn't particularely hard ;)

 

And once you know altitude you can decide engagement range, and launch HoJ. At that point you can drop the lock right away as well, and the missile will happily home in.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The only real range you need to know, against a jamming aircraft, is if its close enough to be within launch parameters for a HOJ shot. I'd give you a step-by-step of how I think these guys are accomplishing that (pretty simple really, if you know how to operate your radar while in standby), but I think they're keeping it a secret for a reason. ;)

You maybe talking about cheats, and I don’t want to go there.

[S77th-GOYA]

GG or anybody, do you think the method you are using to get range on a jammer is realistic? I think I know what you're talking about, and I have my doubts about its realism.

[Guest IguanaKing]

You maybe talking about cheats, and I don’t want to go there.

 

LOL...no, I'm not talking about cheats. Its pretty simple with the simulated equipment that comes stock with LockOn.

 

BTW...if you think I'm talking about "cheats", what cheat are you using which lets you get range on a threat emitter with Beroza? An RWR and the R/T of a radar system don't quite have the same ranging abilities. Maybe this was an error on your part?

[Frostie]

:doh: I don't think your understanding my post I never once said this was an 'F15 busting fool proof method' just an example of ECM usage against a superior radar.

Against more experienced pilots obviously there is less chance of making a kill just like there is less chance of scoring a HOJ kill against exp. pilots.

The idea of using Beroza is pretty simple and can be graded in approx 10-15km distances better than no knowledge IMO can all but guarantee within range shot when radar is activated, I don't see the logic in dis-agreeing with that?

I don't claim to have the answer for beating Pilotasso's F15 cos nobody does.:D

[Pilotasso]

GG or anybody, do you think the method you are using to get range on a jammer is realistic? I think I know what you're talking about, and I have my doubts about its realism.

 

his method is not the same as mine. Attention to the HOJ shot timer, the HOJ "shoot" red lights and the differential in altitude to the target. He cant be underground nor in space, and specialy how far from the center of the TEWS the spike is. Nuf said.

[GGTharos]

GG or anybody, do you think the method you are using to get range on a jammer is realistic? I think I know what you're talking about, and I have my doubts about its realism.

 

Yes, it is - I'm not using anything outside of the box so to speak, only stuff that's provided on my screen. The -real- radar simply automates kinematic ranging, and I'm doing something that is even simpler than that. I'm not doing anything more than observe altitude, angle, and apply a little math to it and a couple rules of thumb ...

 

You can also use other sources for estimation of range naturally, like your RWR or an AWACS or report from other aircraft.

 

Another method is to get his altitude (you always need the alt) then change your own and use your antenna elevation and TDC to estimate range - this means you can drop the HoJ lock on the guy, and it is still realistic not in that this is how it's done, but it would certainly be -a- method of doing so in the absence of another, and you're again, not using anything external (LUA exports etc)

 

What isn't realistic, I'll agree to that, is looking at the TD box on the HUD and waiting for the dot to pop up. On the other hand, since my missiles won't fly PN in HoJ and I have no kinematic ranging procedure built into my F-15, I don't feel particularely guilty about using this method.

[S77th-konkussion]

IK- the range estimation on the Beryoza works every time. Whether or not it's realistic is a question for ED- but they were very proud of the beryoza modeling when it was re-done. They gave it special mention in the read mes. It's a very reliable method. Add that to the relative altitude indicator that supposedly works now (useless in 1.02) and you've got a damn good idea what that guy is up to. You certainly can estimate the range in the F15- it's just not as easy as it is for the russkies.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

BTW...if you think I'm talking about "cheats", what cheat are you using which lets you get range on a threat emitter with Beroza?

I’ve never said I can get range using Bereyoza. I said that I can “estimate” range of the radar source. So I am not cheating.

 

 

An RWR and the R/T of a radar system don't quite have the same ranging abilities. Maybe this was an error on your part?

RWR does NOT have ranging capabilities and I never said it does. What are you talking about?

[Guest IguanaKing]

I’ve never said I can get range using Bereyoza. I said that I can “estimate” range of the radar source. So I am not cheating.

 

See? Doesn't it suck when someone implies you were cheating? It was a joke which was based on your assumption I was talking about cheating when getting range on a jammer. ;) The Eastern aircraft equipped with radars can do the same thing BTW, that's one of the reasons this whole thread came about. In many situations, on both sides of the conflict, it is more harmful to use your jammer because it makes you a more visible target.

 

 

RWR does NOT have ranging capabilities and I never said it does. What are you talking about?

 

Hmmm...I'm talking about what you said above maybe? :smilewink:

[Guest Cali]

Guys I need help here!!! people are still flying close to their home base with jammers on in hyperlobby. We need to spread the word to everyone. Sometimes it just seems hopeless :( they will never learn. Monday for sure I have to program that message for my stick. this is just getting ludacris :megalol:. And now some have started to flick it on and off really fast. But little do they know that doing that has no effect on a incoming ET:smilewink:.

[GGTharos]

Just shoot them, perhaps this will start getting the message across.

[Stealth_HR]

Whap them with an R-73 (or better yet, an SPPU-2).

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup...just shoot them. We'll know who they are when they all start coming here to whine about how their jammer doesn't work. :D

[brewber19]

Whap them with an R-73 (or better yet, an SPPU-2).

 

LOL, few things are as satisfying as a gunzo kill in a Frog....without all that "radar" help to get pipper on target etc...and knowing you snuck right up to them!

[tflash]

Indeed, flying online nowadays means so much radiation that we will all become impotent. It's like the sky is a Christmas tree filled with jammers.

 

Even if you ask many times your party to stop jamming, so that the enemies light up, there is always a guy that didn't understood and gets the missile.

 

We really, really need a basic IFF procedure: an identify call key combo and a "buddy spike" answer.