Parking Brake, Start From Parking Hot

[Frederf]

Please initialize the parking brake to on when spawning in the parking, hot state.

[Dave317]

Great idea. Should it not also be in in the cold state too?

Edited August 13, 2016 by Dave317

[Goldsmack]

Yes! I cannot count how many times when I was learning the start up for the M2000C I looked up as I rolled into the grass....or once int a fuel truck :joystick:. I learned my lesson but it would still be a great idea. Now i'll just have to remember to unlock the parking break on take off.

[T_A]

For cold start , should be SOP to remember to turn it on before starting ignition

 

for hot start on parking i agree

 

for hot air start , you should have IFF turned on aswell.

[Goldsmack]

One could argue it's SOP when shutting down the aircraft to apply the parking break to, unless your actually not suppose to...I suck at French so the real manuals iffy for me. So when getting in for a cold start it should already be applied? I don't know I could go either way on this. Yes you should absolutely check to make sure its on when "getting in" or starting the engine. I believe it also has rolled on me without the engines running maybe the wind or an incline. :D

[Frederf]

Landing generates a lot of heat in the brakes. Applying them immediately after landing for extended periods is a very bad thing to do. It's always chocks. An hour after landing when the brakes are cooled you might switch to parking brake but it's less reliable than chocks, you're already in chocks, and it's a slight strain on the system so why bother.

 

There are separate states "takeoff from runway" "hot start ramp" "cold start ramp" so they can be configured differently.

[Goldsmack]

That makes sense, I believe most military aircraft manuals state to use chocks?. The question then is when is the parking break usually used? extended stays in a hanger or tarmac? In FALCON 4 BMS F-16 I use the parking break switch if I need a minute to to a before takeoff check list, is it better to use toe breaks? or dose it only matter after a landing? I may have to flip through some manuals again. I think the F-16 has a whole section on heat build up in the breaks I will have to re-read, not the same as the Mirage but I never did find an English translated Mirage 2000C manual.

[Britchot]

Although I haven't flown military aircraft, all the ones I've been around have chocks in, brakes off on shutdown.

[Frederf]

Brake energy ca be a big deal. Several normal full stop landings in a row will fry things. Even a single hard landing like a rejected takeoff can mean having to sit in the safety box while the brakes cool. Exploding tires or wheels at 160 psi are lethal and hydraulic fluid likes bursting into flames only second to leaking. Even if it's not a safety issue squeezing together hot brake parts (e.g. a race car just off the track) can damage parts.

 

Parking brake is good for cold brake situations like start and before departure. With the -16 you have to be careful because they auto-release at 80% RPM so (solenoid held switch so it wouldn't work without electricity anyway) it's a poor choice for an EPU check.

 

It's interesting to note the normal freins are on HYD1 and the parking and secours are on HYD2.

 

Braking is 280 bars at >80% (pedal?), 100 bar in SPAD normal, 65 bars in secours, and 85 in parking.

[Azrayen]

One could argue it's SOP when shutting down the aircraft to apply the parking break to, unless your actually not suppose to...

A cold and dark aircraft should NOT have its parking brake set.

[Goldsmack]

Good to know :thumbup: learn something new everyday, neat thing about how the F-16 has different states for breaking. I guess even "simple" things like a parking break on a high performance or heavy aircraft are a lot more complicated then the parking break on say a manual transmission. But unlike in a car you can't pull off to the side of the road if theirs a fire. Thanks for the info guys :smartass:

[Retu81]

Good to know :thumbup: learn something new everyday, neat thing about how the F-16 has different states for breaking. I guess even "simple" things like a parking break on a high performance or heavy aircraft are a lot more complicated then the parking break on say a manual transmission. But unlike in a car you can't pull off to the side of the road if theirs a fire. Thanks for the info guys :smartass:

 

Well, you have an aircraft that weighs as much as a medium sized truck, goes three times as fast during landing, but only has 2 (3 in Mig-21) wheels with brakes. That's a lot of kinetic energy that needs to be dissipated as heat through those two brakes. Things get pretty complicated. :)

[Azrayen]

Braking is 280 bars at >80% (pedal?), 100 bar in SPAD normal, 65 bars in secours, and 85 in parking.

No pedal, it's if engine N > 80%.

Specific mode for run-up (point fixe).

[Shadow_1stVFW]

A cold and dark aircraft should NOT have its parking brake set.

Not sure where your information is from. But it's a matter of SOP.

 

Your aircraft is going to be secured in at least one of three ways, the parking brake, chocks or it'll be chained down. At aircrew walk time, maintenance will start to break down the tie downs, start removing covers and pins and preparing the aircraft for flight. To varying degrees depending on location and SOP. (You'll stay chained, chocked with the brake set on an aircraft carrier until you're about to move for example. Or at an airfield you'll be chocked with the brake on)

 

Like I said, it's all about SOP, whatever the squadron set. Seeing as chocks are not standard for ramp or hot starts in DCS (which I think they should be, by the way) the parking brake should be applied when entering the game.

 

In my squadrons, our aircraft are always chocked and chained at night. By time we walk, the are only chocked. And it is SOP to set the parking brake prior to shutdown. And it will remain so unless it needs to be towed (maintenance obviously knows how to handle their own aircraft). At "strange fields" other than your home field, we instruct the linemen there not to tow the aircraft without up there so they don't ruin the hydraulics. But only in that case do we not set the parking brake, because they don't always listen.

 

In fact, we use the parking brake extensively. Any time we are stopped, except for past a hold short line, JBD, or following an aborted take off (there we have a hot brake check before setting it).

 

On another note, the talk about hot brakes following a landing. This is only really an issue in very hot climates (read summertime in El Centro, California. Look it up 120 degrees F). You won't see many fires though. We have fuse plugs on the tires. When the brakes get too hot the fuse plugs will pop, the tires will deflate slowly, keeping them from exploding.

 

Source: I fly fighters

 

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[jojo]

We have fuse plugs on the tires. When the brakes get too hot the fuse plugs will pop, the tires will deflate slowly, keeping them from exploding.

 

Source: I fly fighters

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

The Mirage 2000 wheels have the same deflate system.

 

But I never saw chains on Mirage 2000. I suspect you fly Navy fighter :smartass:

[Azrayen]

Not sure where your information is from.

Can't remember precisely; various memories from discussions/readings with/about crews, mechanics, manufacturer people... etc.

I even though that the "Chocks: placed --- parking brake: Off" was part of the stop C/L but I couldn't find that while checking, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

But it's a matter of SOP.

Agreed. :)

SOPs are tied with an aircraft and/or an air force.

 

Seeing as chocks are not standard for ramp or hot starts in DCS (which I think they should be, by the way) the parking brake should be applied when entering the game.

Disagree.

If we're to talk about the 2000, chocks should be standard for ramp starts, and parking brakes for hot starts (having the parking brake set to On is part of the "before start" C/L).

AFAIK you're right to say that chocks are not standard in DCS (I think some aircraft have them, others not at all = "missing" feature). I would prefer chocks to be implemented wherever needed, rather than parking brakes set On all across the board (this would lead to 2 things to fix rather than 1).

 

In my squadrons (...)

Interesting, thanks :)

 

As jojo said, you probably fly naval aircraft. Those things tend to use strange airbases, which are moving, rolling, pitching... so weird :D

No chains on the M-2000.

Chocks yes. To be removed as part of the before taxi C/L.

 

In fact, we use the parking brake extensively. Any time we are stopped, except for past a hold short line, JBD, or following an aborted take off (there we have a hot brake check before setting it).

This is also true for the M-2000. :)

 

++

[QuiGon]

As jojo said, you probably fly naval aircraft. Those things tend to use strange airbases, which are moving, rolling, pitching... so weird :D

No chains on the M-2000.

Chocks yes. To be removed as part of the before taxi C/L.

 

That reminds me of an incident described in Sea Harrier Over the Falklands by former RN CMDR Nigel "Sharkey" Ward:

A Sea Harrier (SHAR) pilot fell off the deck of HMS Invincible together with his SHAR while he was sitting in the cockpit performing pre-flight checks (or just sitting there on QRA - can't remember). The captain of HMS Invincible thought it would be a good idea to make a narrow turn at max speed. This caused the deck to roll and because it was also wet (it was raining) it caused the SHAR to start sliding over the deck and it fell into the cold south atlantic ocean, even though the parking brake was engaged.

The pilot ejected before hitting the water and was rescued by a Sea King. According to the book he was pretty outraged, so he went straight to the captain and told him, in a not so respectful manner, that this is an aircraft carrier and not some bloody race boat. :D

 

So yeah, I guess there is a reason to chain aircrafts down in the navy :D

Edited September 9, 2016 by QuiGon