Viable AIM-7M Tactic?

[JazonXD]

So after flying on the 104th today with only ERs and Sparrows, this got me thinking again, what are some actual viable tactics with the AIM-7M under such conditions? (Enemies only having ERs)?

 

One of the first tactics that I tried was to just simply fly really really high and dive down. But even though I managed to dive down on an unsuspecting MiG, fired off a Sparrow at about 6 miles, and still no hit. I couldn't tell what happened to missile but most likely lost track because it should have had plenty of speed to intercept at that range.

 

So can anyone suggest a decent tactic for the Sparrows? (Yes, I know, I should just fly the Flanker lol, but I really would want to know, getting a kill with the Sparrow is much more rewarding :p)

 

Thanks.

[Stuge]

Yeah problem is ER range advantage over Sparrow is very significant. A reasonble tactic is to attack an unsuspecing target that is busy attacking someone else.

 

Sometimes I fly nap of earth (~30 feet above ground) while attacking, SARH missiles lose track when target flies so low :) but it's risky of course watch out for houses, power lines etc, and you have to pop up or fly inverted when you fire a sparrow of your own :):):) the effectiveness of this tactic has been decreased since missile guidance logic during lock loss was changed from drooping down to holding course. Now a missile may reacquire if you climb again too soon!

Edited August 16, 2016 by Stuge

[gavagai]

With Fox1 you want your missile to impact before the other guy's missile. When you're up against an opponent with longer range missiles, you need a wingman. If you can't force a 2vs1 situation against the adversary who knows you're there, you don't engage because you are inferior.

 

Yeah, you can dance around the mountains at low level, but then you're relying on luck to keep you alive.

[Stuge]

Yeah, you can dance around the mountains at low level, but then you're relying on luck to keep you alive.

 

Mountain dancing against a single opponent is anything but luck in my opinion... it can be a very beautiful dance... graceful use of terrain features to drive an enemy's missile into a hill, while ensuring your own missile find its way to the target :)

 

Luck comes into play when you loiter in a combat area. The more you spend time, the more likely that an unseen opponent takes you down.

[IASGATG]

I'd ignore the 7M for anything but tail chase and use exclusively 9M to fight head on.

[Stuge]

I'd ignore the 7M for anything but tail chase and use exclusively 9M to fight head on.

 

Good point, AIM-9 is the poor man's ET.

[Fri13]

With Fox1 you want your missile to impact before the other guy's missile. When you're up against an opponent with longer range missiles, you need a wingman. If you can't force a 2vs1 situation against the adversary who knows you're there, you don't engage because you are inferior.

 

Yeah, you can dance around the mountains at low level, but then you're relying on luck to keep you alive.

 

And as we don't have features like where flight are in Peer-to-Peer datalink (one aircraft radar On, transmitting data to others in flight) and guidance of other flight launched missiles (a flight where one has radar On and is behind others, that are accelerating or gaining altitude (or flanking) and launching missiles toward enemy and after launch running away (or flanking) without any requirements to guide missiles in).

 

Such datalink and missile guidance would turn many BVR combat totally different. But all those requires upgrading FC3 aircrafts (that isn't happening according Wags http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2302923&postcount=46)

 

And that just leaves to use AIM-7 in different ways than could be. (And I am actually unsure does AIM-7 support guidance by a another aicraft in flight?).

[104th_Maverick]

Try your best to be the guy shooting at someone who isn't shooting back at you!

 

I know this is not always possible but in terms of success this is the most successful way to use the Aim7.

 

Mountain flying and being with a wingman helps as already mentioned.

 

Even if you don't have a wingman but there are other friendly aircraft in the area, use them to mix it up and take the focus away from you. Then get yourself within 5nm of the enemy aircraft and open up on him!

 

Always try to get as close as possible before firing an Aim7, as a general rule, if the enemy aircraft is not painting you or locking you .... get closer :D

 

And finally .... double tap!

 

Not everyone does this, but I do it every time. To many times have I watched my first and only missile sail straight past the bad guy, so I always put two missiles down range to increase my PK.

After firing my first missile from inside 5nm I will always follow this up with a second Aim7 launched 1-2 seconds after the first one or I will follow it up with an Aim9 launched before the Aim7 impacts.

 

Yes you will have to land to rearm sooner, however in most cases you will be alive and the bad guy will be dead ..... major bonus!

 

Good luck

 

S!

[winchesterdelta1]

Use SU-27 tactics, The tactics they do to engage a AMRAAM platform.

[Sweep]

Don't go low.

 

Go high, get fast. Come diving in like a bat outta hell and you'll show those Flankers who's got the kinematic advantage.

 

You can't control airspace, but you can kill bandits this way (which seems to be the ultimate goal on 104th anyway I think?).

 

Recommended loadout is 4 Sparrows, one bag, no heaters, spool before the ground dudes add pylons (not sure if they actually add drag or not...just do it anyway!)

 

Think of yourself as a MiG-25 that can take 9g and you'll go far.

[DarkFire]

Don't go low.

 

Go high, get fast. Come diving in like a bat outta hell and you'll show those Flankers who's got the kinematic advantage.

 

You can't control airspace, but you can kill bandits this way (which seems to be the ultimate goal on 104th anyway I think?).

 

Recommended loadout is 4 Sparrows, one bag, no heaters, spool before the ground dudes add pylons (not sure if they actually add drag or not...just do it anyway!)

 

Think of yourself as a MiG-25 that can take 9g and you'll go far.

 

AFAIK if a pylon doesn't have anything attached to it, it generates zero drag.

 

To answer the OP's question: the F-pole is another often overlooked but potentially successful tactic. It is however very dangerous if it doesn't work, though the ability of the F-15 to convert altitude in to speed mitigates this a bit.

[pr1malr8ge]

To the OP's statement of using the Sparrow for High alt attack..

 

I'm not sure how exactly you're setting this shot up, how ever I can tell you if you set up right I have gotten many of kills doing it.

 

at any rate, you need to be high and FAST.. 40k+ m1.5+ is prime.

On a side note, shooting a target thats on the deck most likely will not result in a kill.. You need your target at least 10k or higher. As sweeper said, if you follow your shot down your second shot will be a a sure kill.

[GGTharos]

and guidance of other flight launched missiles (a flight where one has radar On and is behind others,

 

You'll never see that simulated, because it isn't done in RL. Also, your radar CANNOT be off to launch the missile (there some much more modern aircraft that might do this, but they also require much more modern missiles ... and any guidance signals are generated by the launch platform one way or another). The radar must tune the missile, and the FCR is required to launch the missile with guidance operating as well.

 

And that just leaves to use AIM-7 in different ways than could be. (And I am actually unsure does AIM-7 support guidance by a another aircraft in flight?).

No missile supports this. This is done by tuning the aircraft radars to the same channels (which, BTW, an F-15 pilot can do in-flight without problem), and it's actually very bad for employment - known and well understood since AIM-7Es were being shot at things.

What they do, is deliberately deconflict channels to avoid EMI which causes self-jamming, bad missile guidance and on older missiles, premature proximity detonations.

Edited August 16, 2016 by GGTharos

[ShuRugal]

With Fox1 you want your missile to impact before the other guy's missile. When you're up against an opponent with longer range missiles, you need a wingman. If you can't force a 2vs1 situation against the adversary who knows you're there, you don't engage because you are inferior.

 

Yeah, you can dance around the mountains at low level, but then you're relying on luck to keep you alive.

 

Flanker Life in a nutshell.

[SinusoidDelta]

IMHO the only viable use of the flying telephone pole is when there's risk of fratricide. This is assuming 120's are available though. High alt/mach sparrow shots don't seem nearly as effective as of late but I don't have acmi's from a year ago to prove it. That's a whole other subject though.

[Fri13]

 

The radar must tune the missile, and the FCR is required to launch the missile with guidance operating as well.

 

And none can be fed by p2p datalink and supporting radar?

Edited August 17, 2016 by Fri13

[GGTharos]

All tuning and M-link generation is done by the FCR that the missile is physically attached to before launch.

[Fri13]

All tuning and M-link generation is done by the FCR that the missile is physically attached to before launch.

And none can be handed over to another by doing that for it?

[GGTharos]

I'll try to clarify:

 

M-link:

The FCR that launches the missile generates the M-Link. An FCR that has not launched a missile will not generate an M-Link.

This is an FCS/SW version issue in some cases, but for the older systems it's fixed.

In newer fighters, the shooter still generates the M-link, but can generate it from off-board data (ie a fighter data link or awacs data link). In that case, the radar is not used to search or track for the target, but the m-link is still transmitted by that same radar antenna.

 

SARH tuning:

AFAIK only the FCR that launches the missile can tune the missile before launch. This uses a physical connection to transfer the radar waveform to the missile in order to tune it. This is part of the process that causes the launch delay when you pull the trigger. You could shoot an un-tuned missile, and then it would be total ECM bait.

It would certainly be possible to tune two radars to the same channel, so the launching radar goes STT, launches, and the other aircraft takes over illumination. Depending on the launch range, you might not need M-link at all.

Unfortunately those two radars can easily (Actually, WILL) interfere with each other, making ECM from the target even more effective. You have effectively turned two weapon systems into one - I don't need to go into why this isn't a great idea.

 

The targets don't really have to care much for this trick - in the end, you're jamming the guiding radar one way or another, and it can be defeated the exact same way.

Meanwhile, this shooter-illuminator arrangement basically has zero mutual support due to their separation.

 

So it's not so much that this isn't possible to do, it's that it is just a bad idea electronically and tactically, at least in RL.

 

Addendum: There are some missiles which may have AWACS data-link terminals - those would be the SM-6's (or otherwise, they use an airborne relay for the M-link), and allegedly the AIM-120D ... I don't buy that for the 120D, it's still an M-link with the shooter and no one else.