Landing Troubles

[Gonzxor]

I've watched lots of videos on youtube, but I still cant get a landing down.

 

 

My glide slope is right on the tire marks the whole time, as I approach my speed is around 180-220. Angle of attack is about 15-20. When I hit the ground, I hit it hard, every single time. I usaully will still walk away from it, but the back landing gear will be crunched. Even if I try raising the nose just before I hit, then the tail smacks the runway.

 

So what am I doing wrong? Thanks for the help, sorry im a newb :(

[pr1malr8ge]

I've watched lots of videos on youtube, but I still cant get a landing down.

 

 

My glide slope is right on the tire marks the whole time, as I approach my speed is around 180-220. Angle of attack is about 15-20. When I hit the ground, I hit it hard, every single time. I usaully will still walk away from it, but the back landing gear will be crunched. Even if I try raising the nose just before I hit, then the tail smacks the runway.

 

So what am I doing wrong? Thanks for the help, sorry im a newb :(

 

 

Speed on landing is dependent on weight and units of AOA... By the way, you want to be at 21u-aoa.. I land around 18-22, never been consistant with that. 15u-aoa is just too shallow, and if you're coming down at 15 and 180-220 kts you probably have a decent rate close to 1000fpm. From what I remember 600fpm is max for the eagle.

 

With that, you also need to be smooth when pulling power and if adding in air brake. If your decent rate goes over 500 ft per minute you need to correct this as this is what is causing your Hard hit.. Adding power will arrest the decent rate.

 

Maintaining the correct AOA during approach will for the most part alleviate your hard hits.. It how ever will not correct a bad setup where you come over the threshold too high. This is also when most people pull power and air brake trying to get down.. Go Full power and GO AROUND!

 

There is a reason that long straight in approaches are not taught to beginner flyers, as it can be hard to judge what height you should be at when you line up. With that, I suggest flying the pattern using downind, base & final legs. This will let you manage your aoa decentrate and altitude much better when crossing the threshold. I'm not sure exactly what altitude the f15 pattern is but my guess would be 1000ft agl. I know in an over head break [just a much faster way of entering the pattern] is 2500ft.

Edited September 6, 2016 by pr1malr8ge

[Gonzxor]

Yeah I'm definitely coming in way faster than 600fpm. I think another problem is I had way to much fuel, about 80%.

 

Thanks for the tips, Ill try them out.

[Gonzxor]

It was definitely the fuel weight, I was at 13000 pounds. Landing is a breeze now, guess when you got more weight you just gotta land alot faster.

[pr1malr8ge]

Yeah I'm definitely coming in way faster than 600fpm. I think another problem is I had way to much fuel, about 80%.

 

Thanks for the tips, Ill try them out.

 

you can land the bird with full fuel and full munitions, it just requires substantially more speed to reduce the rate of decent. because of that you also need more room to stop..

[JazonXD]

Basically just keep in mind that you should have about 21uAoA for all weights and configuration on you approach and you should be good. (I've seen this posted around quite a lot and people were referencing the dash 1 so...)

[Winston 60]

........I think another problem is I had way to much fuel, about 80%.........

Try dumping fuel. It actually works in the F-15C!

[GGTharos]

As has been mentioned in this thread, do your approach at 21 units of AoA, and a 2.5-3 degree glideslope.

 

You must hit both parameters and hold them constant until the runway fills your HUD or you experience ground rush.

 

At that point, pull the nose up (don't throttle down yet) to flare. You're going from your FPM at 2.5-3 deg to about 0.5 deg or less (but not zero, or you'll float). Once you're satisfied with the flare, pull power.

 

The timing for pulling power depends on your gross weight usually - if you're heavy, you'll wait longer to pull it, or maybe you won't pull it until touch-down, then idle the engines.

 

Again, it is critical to do the 21uAoA + 3deg glideslope technique correctly, and then the flare correctly.

 

Get those right and you can land a 68000lbs eagle no problem.

 

Regarding the descent limit: It's 600fpm for a 36000lbs eagle. If you were to double that, the limit might reasonably be 300fpm.

If you're landing with 13000lbs of fuel but clean otherwise you're a 42000lbs eagle, and your descent limit is somewhere around 500fpm.

 

I've watched lots of videos on youtube, but I still cant get a landing down.

 

 

My glide slope is right on the tire marks the whole time, as I approach my speed is around 180-220. Angle of attack is about 15-20. When I hit the ground, I hit it hard, every single time. I usaully will still walk away from it, but the back landing gear will be crunched. Even if I try raising the nose just before I hit, then the tail smacks the runway.

 

So what am I doing wrong? Thanks for the help, sorry im a newb :(

[mytai01]

That's why aircraft have fuel dump capability. You can't land when you're too heavy.

[GGTharos]

Yes you can land with an overweight condition, you normally wouldn't because it isn't safe.

 

If you're losing hydraulics and half an engine's thrust during an overloaded T/O, you're not going to circle dumping fuel for how knows how long - you're going to turn around and land using appropriate technique, or possibly eject if the aircraft cannot be controlled adequately.

 

Some aircraft can't dump fuel.

[pauldy]

 

At that point, pull the nose up (don't throttle down yet) to flare. You're going from your FPM at 2.5-3 deg to about 0.5 deg or less (but not zero, or you'll float). Once you're satisfied with the flare, pull power.

 

 

This perhaps was the missing link.. So far I'm having better and more consistent touchdowns in the past few days.. Aside from maintaining a 21 AoA 2.5-3 degree descent picture..

 

As for the ILS, I tend to de-activate it even at night.. only if the Runway can be seen clearly enough.. Dunno if what I'm doing is advisable though... It kinda adds clutter in my HUD view that's why..

[Bond 42]

You can land every plane at the same weight it takes off. The worst case for any airplane is the high speed abort at max T/O weight.

If you re-land after a short traffic circuit, speed and weight are already lower than during a rejected take off.

The only thing that's critical is the rate of descent at touchdown which should be as low as possible.

In civil aviation most planes can't dump fuel and even if you can dump fuel on a 'heavy' you are still way above max landing weight.

 

Most aircraft require an overweight landing inspection if you land heavy... So worst case is you break something. Its a structural limitation. Nothing to do with an (RTO) rejected take-off.

Rate of decent as low as possible is what you will shoot for if you really had to land immediately.

[Bond 42]

Well, I don't know why you should 'break something' during a normal landing as you always strive for a touchdown at the lowest possible rate of descent that's not exactly difficult to achieve.

If you don't exceed the ROD, a overweight landing inspection takes only a couple of minutes on most planes, while during a RTO at MTOW maintainance action is needed because at least all main gear tires will deflate.

That's why I wrote that a RTO is the most critical event as structural limitations normally aren't exceeded.

BTW, fuse plugs don't always work either....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUMuOyMTQ8Y

 

Well, you always are looking for a smooth touchdown, but it doesn't always happen :doh:

Weather factors, fatigue, etc, affect that in real-life.

True, some overweight landings can be quickly done, while others, depending on manufacture specs and rate of decent, take a lot longer/cost $$$$.

RTO's are critical due to possible controllability issues/departing runway. I think thats kinda where you were going with the RTO thing also.

[Bond 42]

1.Talking about professional pilots here and chances are that for 99% they easily stay within the necessary limits.

2. Fatique is for sure not a factor during an overweight landing ;)

Generally a heavy plane is much more stable during the approach than a light one. That's expecially noticable in bumpy weather.

 

I get where you are coming from... but I do fly professionally myself.

No landing is ever the same.. sometimes its smooth as glass but rarely you do get a slammer lol it is what it is.

The human factors part is real, even during an emergency/overweight landing.

And yes, the heavier the more stable, but its not a night and day difference.. you don't just plow through the rough air being heavy and not feel a thing.