How to put the target at the radar limits?

[apocom]

Hi guys, noob question.

 

I have trouble to put my target at the radar limits without loosing lock (during cranking). In the F15 we have the clear boundary, but I'm missing something similar in the SU27.

 

When I use the DLZ "Triangle" I'm not using the radar limit. Guessing seems a little bit too risky.

Additionaly we have the radar antenna position in the HUD, but this has only a left boundary.

 

So is there a method to put my target reliable on my radars limits?

[kobeshow]

there is a dot in your HUD when you lock a target, this represents the direction the radar is pointed, put it on the edge of your HUD and the enemy will be on your gimbal limit.

[apocom]

That is what I've meant with antenna position. But there is no visual indication when the antenna can't move any further to the right side (for example). The limit is somewhere in the middle of the altitudes digits.

[hollywoodvillain]

I always wondered about this too. Even when referencing the nav mfd (or whatever its called in the flanker) its difficult to judge where the gimbal limits are, Ive always just guessed. If theres a better way I would like to know. Perhaps thats why western jets have a dedicated FCR mfd, rather than projecting it onto the HUD

[DarkFire]

Depends what mode your radar is in. In scan or TWS modes you have indicator bars at the bottom and right hand side of the HUD that show the elevation & azimuth coverage of the radar scan, and the HDD will generally show whether the antenna is slewed to the right or left. The coverage bars are bounded to the top and bottom and left / right of the HuD so will show the relative position of your radar 'cone.'

 

When you lock a target and drop in to "attack" mode (single target track) the radar antenna indicator (the dot that kobeshow mentioned) will show the direction of the antenna. All the material I've ever read about the Su-27 radar suggests that the antenna indicator should be kept inside the visible area of the HuD. Don't think there's any more accurate indicator than that when in STT mode.

 

Pages 50 - 56 of the Su-27 flight manual explain things better than I can :)

[Weta43]

Also - if you look at your HDD display, there's an arc marked that shows the scan of your radar (it moves between 'left, centre and right').

Keep the displayed range correct & your target (or possible targets) will be visible below the arc. If the target moves outside the area between your own ship and the ends of that arc, they're outside your gimbal limits..

[Frostie]

Keep the radar antenna dot inside the radar area on the HUD, there is an outline on the left side (the range scale), the right side is harder to judge.

[apocom]

Also - if you look at your HDD display, there's an arc marked that shows the scan of your radar (it moves between 'left, centre and right').

Keep the displayed range correct & your target (or possible targets) will be visible below the arc. If the target moves outside the area between your own ship and the ends of that arc, they're outside your gimbal limits..

 

 

Yes, but that is also a little bit of guessing here. I'v noticed that when I have a contact that is jamming. It's way easier to put it that way on the gimbal limits, because I have a nice line than.

 

 

Keep the radar antenna dot inside the radar area on the HUD, there is an outline on the left side (the range scale), the right side is harder to judge.

 

When that is coming from you, I think it's my best bet. The other problem is that the radar antenna dot has an invisible circle where it can move without loosing lock, the HUD is a square.

 

 

Just to clarify why I'm nitpicking here, I did some math on cranking, and the more you have already turned the more valuable the degrees are. The distance an incoming missile has to travel additionally is far greater between 70°-75° instead of 0°-5°. And I'm only talking about the distance you gain by the additional 5°.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

This might reflect the design philosophy and intended use of Soviet fighters as well. GCI guides the aircraft to the right spot and gives permission to activate radar. Shoot, evade and leave. Eastern tactics have been different from western ones for a long time, and it might just be that the designers never saw a need to display the limits.

 

Then again it could just be that the FC3 HUDs are lacking.

[Ironhand]

Hi guys, noob question.

 

I have trouble to put my target at the radar limits without loosing lock (during cranking). In the F15 we have the clear boundary, but I'm missing something similar in the SU27.

 

When I use the DLZ "Triangle" I'm not using the radar limit. Guessing seems a little bit too risky.

Additionaly we have the radar antenna position in the HUD, but this has only a left boundary.

 

So is there a method to put my target reliable on my radars limits?

This is the rough draft of a tutorial I was working on until life intruded. I had uploaded it to see how it looked and never got around to deleting it. There are no added graphics to point out exactly what I'm referring to as I talk. But you might find it useful just the same. There are also aspects at other points that, if I ever get back to it, I would probably present differently. Anyway, this picks it up toward the end of the tutorial.

 

 

 

Rich

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ironhand

[DarkFire]

This is the rough draft of a tutorial I was working on until life intruded. I had uploaded it to see how it looked and never got around to deleting it. There are no added graphics to point out exactly what I'm referring to as I talk. But you might find it useful just the same. There are also aspects at other points that, if I ever get back to it, I would probably present differently. Anyway, this picks it up toward the end of the tutorial.

 

 

Rich

 

It'd be great if you could find the time to finish the video - it's a really good training film :thumbup:

[apocom]

This is the rough draft of a tutorial I was working on until life intruded. I had uploaded it to see how it looked and never got around to deleting it. There are no added graphics to point out exactly what I'm referring to as I talk. But you might find it useful just the same. There are also aspects at other points that, if I ever get back to it, I would probably present differently. Anyway, this picks it up toward the end of the tutorial.

 

 

 

Rich

 

Great film, thx. Too bad we can't slave the radar towards the EO, so notching against the SU27 would be impossible.

[Ironhand]

Great film, thx. Too bad we can't slave the radar towards the EO, so notching against the SU27 would be impossible.

It would be great if the system was designed to keep the radar in STT mode so that the missile in the air wasn't trashed. But it's not. The system does, however, keep your radar pointing directly at the target so that, if you keep the trigger depressed and press the "I" key to give the radar priority, you'll launch a new missile as soon as he exits the notch. All of this assumes, of course, that you are within parameters to maintain an EO lock.

 

It'd be great if you could find the time to finish the video - it's a really good training film :thumbup:

I'm trying to. :)

[DarkFire]

Great film, thx. Too bad we can't slave the radar towards the EO, so notching against the SU27 would be impossible.

 

Apparently the real Su-27 does indeed have a feature like this: in CAC mode the radar can be slaved to the EOS & laser rangefinder, I suppose like some sort of directed flood mode. With certain limitations this would indeed mean that beaming the radar, at least at WVR ranges, would be far less effective.

 

I'm trying to. :)

 

Good stuff, I'll look forwards to it :)

[Ironhand]

Apparently the real Su-27 does indeed have a feature like this: in CAC mode the radar can be slaved to the EOS & laser rangefinder, I suppose like some sort of directed flood mode. With certain limitations this would indeed mean that beaming the radar, at least at WVR ranges, would be far less effective.

 

...

I think it might have it, too...at least current versions. I'm more concerned with how to use what's in the sim.