Mirage supercruising?

[Pocket Sized]

So, if the HUD velocity is TAS,

 

It isn't.

[Panthir]

M2K can "supercruise" due to the delta wing arround 40k high. The only problem is that it initially needs AB to go supersonic. Then can supercruise MAX dry low supersonic. Something arround 1.2M if I am right :-).

Edited October 11, 2016 by Panthir

[GGTharos]

No. Just no. You`d need a much more powerful dry-thrust engine for this :) Drag is still very high at M1.2.

 

M2K can "supercruise" due to the delta wing arround 40k high. The only problem is that it initially needs AB to go supersonic. Then can supercruise MAX dry low supersonic. Something arround 1.2M if I am right :-).

[Panthir]

https://m.facebook.com/notes/flying-geeks/aerodynamic-advantages-of-delta-wings/215643998462157/

 

GGTharos read please the 1st paragraph

[Panthir]

The primary advantage of the delta wing is that, with a large enough angle of rearward sweep, the wing’s leading edge will not contact the shock wave boundary formed at the nose of the fuselage as the speed of the aircraft approaches and exceeds transonic to supersonic speed. The rearward sweep angle vastly lowers the airspeed normal to the leading edge of the wing, thereby allowing the aircraft to fly at high subsonic, transonic, or supersonic speed, while the over wing speed of the lifting air is kept to less than the speed of sound. Some other advantages of Delta wings are:-

 

Rise in Transsonic drag is gradual and peak drag in supersonic flight is reduced

[GGTharos]

Somehow that doesn`t look like a performance chart for the Mirage. This might help your argument a bit better. :)

 

Even a drag force or drag coefficient graph would help your argument much better. What you types is really no different between the mirage and the vast majority of other fighters. Delta wings don`t magically make an aircraft super-slick and able to super-cruise.

 

I might add that you`ll one day notice - if you look deep enough - that descriptions of what the peak is doing aren't terribly relevant without other information, nor indeed the complete graph of the coefficient of drag at minimum.

[Panthir]

My dear friend, I can't provide you with a performance chart right now and I don't intend to do it :-) .Eventually, Delta wings have some pros and cons as well. One advantage is the comparative drag reduction while being supersonic due to the fact that eventually the wing is still subsonic. This advantage is significant 40k high. This is the truth my friend, whatever you say. I quit now :-)

[GGTharos]

Again, this is absolutely meaningless.

 

It's like saying that an 11m barrier is lower than a 12m barrier. It's comparatively lower, yes. You still won't be jumping over it :)

 

One advantage is the comparative drag reduction while being supersonic due to the fact that eventually the wing is still subsonic. This advantage is significant 40k high. This is the truth my friend, whatever you say. I quit now :-)

[Ktulu2]

This is the case for any swept wing, not only delta wings. As you said, its all about the flow that is orthogonal to the wing, which any wing that has a sweep angle will reduce.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ktulu2

[Azrayen]

M2K can "supercruise" due to the delta wing arround 40k high. The only problem is that it initially needs AB to go supersonic. Then can supercruise MAX dry low supersonic. Something arround 1.2M if I am right :-).

 

Chiming in, heard ~the same indeed.

40-45K.

No more than 2 Fox2.

M1.2, perhaps a bit less? Was not specific.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Azrayen

[Bashibazouk]

This is an old thread, but I looked it up because I was surprised to be exceeding Mach 1.02 in level flight at angels 22 without AB. I had two heaters on the outside pylons and an empty pylon in the middle after bombing a runway with BAPs (or whatever they're called). I don't know how realistic this is, or if the indicator in the HUD is correct, but using F3 (external flyby) I was definitely witnessing  the DCS sonic boom. Whether it's accurate or not, the DCS M-2000 will kind of supercruise with the lightest AA combat load.

Now, as I write this I a few things have occurred to me. At Angels 22, it wasn't getting past 1.1 so maybe I was using a ton of fuel, probably less than when using AB but still. It may not be the most efficient way to get around. When I find the time I might see what it's like above Angels 30, maybe it's further away from transonic and thus more efficient. Any other comments, criticism or knowledge is welcome on my part.

 

EDIT - IIRC, I did use AB to get past Mach 1, but it was definitely holding steady without AB at those low supersonic speeds once it was over the worst of the hump.

Edited March 24 by Bashibazouk

[Kercheiz]

M1.02 is transsonic, it's not enough for being elligible to the "supercruise" club, especially with virtually no loadout.

 

[Sideburns]

It might be worth testing this after dropping the bombs and also having never had the bombs on the plane but otherwise a similar loadout. A few DCS modules have had weapons drag bugs where using a weapon results in less overall drag then never having carried the weapon in the first place.

[zerO_crash]

The above mentioned refer to a facebook post which is sourced off Wikipedia. People have a funny concept of what constituates a good source. Can't wait till Tiktok becomes the next best around here.

 

In any case, the ability to supercruise is really dependant on two factors: thrust-to-weight ratio and aircraft layout (aerodynamic properties). It isn't however as simple as stating that an aircraft posessing both will be capable of supercruising. It's more individual than that. Fact is, unless a proper CFD simulation, reliable chart is presented or actual pilot (possibly someone knowing one), it's pure speculation.

 

Checked "Manuel Pilote Mirage 2000 C" (don't ask me how I got it, or to post it) and there is no mention of the capability. That doesn't, however, mean anything. An SME could provide valuable input here (to which Razbam should have access) or a confirmation from Razbam. Eventually, there are French forums, where a user might have a friend of a friend in the French Air Force. Until then, speculation.

Edited April 21 by zerO_crash