Force Feedback Realism?

[TripRodriguez]

Hey guys!

 

I've just recently got my Stewart type 6DOF motion simulator up and running (but not yet finished!) and have started flying with it in DCS.

 

I wanted to add a Force Feedback joystick to add realism, especially for the sake of my soon to be 90 year old father who was a RL pilot (but hasn't flown for about 20 years) and was in the Air Force just after WWII as an aircraft mechanic and then flight engineer.

 

I want his VR flight experience to be as realistic as possible to maximize the nostalgia effect.

 

For this reason I purchased a Microsoft Force Feedback 2 USB joystick on ebay and have just tested it out in the P-51 Mustang.

 

My question is: How realistic is the feedback from the Joystick? The only thing I felt was shaking when the aircraft was approaching a stall (does the stick in a real antique airplane shake before a stall?) and shaking when I pulled up hard or dove hard, I assume indicating excessive stress on the airplane.

 

Since I'm already using a motion sim it's not useful function I'm looking for out of the stick but realistic feel.

 

If you want to see my simulator (being used in Prepar3d) check out the video. Just ignore the commentary which you can't hear very well anyway, I recorded this for the folks helping me test and tune my new toy. :D

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by TripRodriguez

[Ramsay]

It depends on how well FFB is simulated for the P-51, AFAIK DCS usually emulates the control forces and feedback felt in the stick/control column.

 

The vibration you feel in the stick might/should be emulating the air flow buffet over the ailerons, etc. that is transmitted through mechanical push rods or cables back to the pilot.

 

I bought my MSFB2 for the L-39 and there - the stick is loose on the ground, stiffens up with increasing airspeed (due to air flow), has vibration buffet near stall and will go loose/slack in a stall until the nose drops/normal air flow returns.

 

I haven't flown the P-51 with force feedback, so YMMV.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Ramsay

[TripRodriguez]

Thanks Ramsay! That's actually very helpful, as it means the FFB2 will be useful at least on some airplanes. Now to determine which prop driven aircraft in DCS have the best force feedback effects.

 

If anyone has experience and can chime in to say which of the WWII aircraft available in DCS have the most realistic force feedback please do so! This includes the P-51, as I'm not saying it doesn't, I only tested it fairly briefly and only in the air as I didn't have the ability to use my rudder and throttle during the test which makes taking off and landing (and flying in general) unpleasant for me! I'm spoiled, what else can I say?

Edited December 6, 2016 by TripRodriguez

[Nooch]

I can tell you from my real world experience FFB in DCS is very realistic. The only thing that isn't 100% realistic is the stick shaking you mentionned. It's there because on some aircrafts approaching stall will lead to buffeting and slight airframe shaking. But the stick itself will never shake. You get that in the sim simply because you don't have an airframe around for to you to feel the vibrations so they put that on the joystick.

[Bucic]

ForceFeedback in DCS - realistic or gimmick? - ED Forums https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=129387&highlight=control+forces

 

Stick forces telemetry and stability testing - ED Forums https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=145579&highlight=control+forces

 

I've been asking about the matter for years. I haven't even got a proverbial bone from ED.

[Yo-Yo]

I can tell you from my real world experience FFB in DCS is very realistic. The only thing that isn't 100% realistic is the stick shaking you mentionned. It's there because on some aircrafts approaching stall will lead to buffeting and slight airframe shaking. But the stick itself will never shake. You get that in the sim simply because you don't have an airframe around for to you to feel the vibrations so they put that on the joystick.

 

Stick shaking presents in a lot of real planes, including Spitfire, L39, etc. L39 even has special devices to add turbulence on the stab at high AoA.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

meanwhile i collected three different msffb2 sticks...and i get the same results on every one of them...

ffb seems buggy unfortunately...buggy because its inconsistent. sometimes you feel the forces really good, and sometimes there aren't any except stick shake and constant force through the whole flight. it also seems, that offline, ffb works better than online.

interestingly, if you change the ffb settings in dcs, even if its only to decrease for example trimforce from 100 to 99, and revert it back to 100 and then click safe, and go for a flight, it seems that ffb is working correctly for the next few flights...after a few restarts of dcs, ffb becomes less responding. dont know what that is, and why that happens, but i tested this with all three joysticks and get the same results, and all of my friends seem to say the same.

 

the thing which bugs me most, is that online the ffb seems to work much worse than offline.

[Nooch]

Stick shaking presents in a lot of real planes, including Spitfire, L39, etc. L39 even has special devices to add turbulence on the stab at high AoA.

 

Well, I guess I spoke too fast then. The airframes I've had the chance to fly were not prone to buffeting anyway...

[TripRodriguez]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not getting any airframe shake through my motion sim when approaching stall. I wonder if (assuming it's not a matter of adjustment on my end which I don't think it is) this would need to be added by ED, or a change made to the motion software (I use BFF simulation).

 

I suspect maybe my FFB2 is weak, need to see if I can get another one cheap. Going to try either the resistor mod to up power, the dual FFB2 mod, or both. I will be extending the stick also, and putting on a more realistic grip.

 

@yo-yo You don't happen to know if the P-51 presents buffeting through the stick do you?

[ronht]

I fly for a living and have over 40 years of real world flying experience in various aircraft.

 

DCS is an incredible simulation that offers the most real world experience I have ever seen outside of the real multi-million dollar simulators we use in training at work.

 

The stick forces that I have experienced with various FFB joysticks I have used do very little to add to the realism. In my opinion, extending the stick will do more to add to the realism than anything I've seen so far.