Training Mission 04 ILS Landing

[zaelu]

I want to create a separate thread for this mission maybe others have different feedback on it.

 

After trying the mission several times I managed to reach the airfield and land but only after getting terrible lost over the sea.

 

After thinking about it I found some solutions for the minuses of the mission.

 

First. It needs another mission for a normal visual landing with all the information explained. Where you should start your approach.

 

What distance.

What altitude. In the ILS landing mission you only say "keep this altitude". Not even... Hey look you are at 6800feet this should be your starting approach altitude and start descending when you are at x distance from beacon.

What sink rate. Yes the Mirage is very smart and can make those for you if you just "activate chevrons" (kidding) but as a pilot you need to know these values anyway and they are not included in the current manual.

Speed. When to reduce from 280 to 230 and what should be the touch down speed at current weight?

 

Landing the Mirage currently is such a guess work. 230 is the speed when the gear lever is flashing. 120 is the rotate speed in the manual at take off so maybe 140 should be minimum for landing and when heavy the airplane hits hard even at 190. A lot of trial and error that shouldn't be necessary.

 

Also in the milk is very hard to follow instructions when they are many and superimposed with the tower. Also instructions are not clear. The dash line is not pointing... it's tilted but has no pointing end or it's not described. The square doesn't stay on top it moves over the dash line. Also the square sometimes is misleading because it seems it tries to suggest hard turns instead of small adjustments and acts differently (has no triangles).

 

 

All in all the mission is OK but because it's the first and only landing you get to train it's looking more like a dare than a lesson.

[firmek]

I actually find it that TACAN helps a lot. Set the HSI into TACAN mode, follow the course as instructed by ATC, watch altitude and turn towards the runway when the HSI arrow is aligned with the runway heading. To some extend I was relying more on the instruments than on the HUD. Maybe it's just me but the vertical ILS indicator - dashed line on HUD is confusing me more than actually helping. Might be it’s too sensitive, don’t know but I find its movement too erratic.

[zaelu]

I managed to do it "cleanly" without getting lost. I changed the DEST waypoint to 02 before the actual moment of instruction because at that point usually I was handful. There are instructions about the altitude at some point but I observed them only at reviewing the movie file and not during the lesson. Cause I think is a bit of overload.

 

 

[baltic_dragon]

That is why it is better to fly some of the lessons more than once..

It is really difficult for me to imagine how I could make this mission less packed - perhaps with the longer approach? But I just assumed that those who play and don't succeed during the first run will try again. It is a training after all!

[zaelu]

The duration might be OK. There are some moments during the mission when is silence (after talking with the tower and waiting for the double needle to reach 121), or maybe after turning to 121 when some of the info might be passed. The waypoint 2 can be selected early. It helps but at the final stage the workload can be reduced by it being already selected..

 

My main problems I think were related with the dash line and the square that can be confusing now because they are not very clear what they show, when and when the go haywire. Also not maintaining 6000 feet and then 3000 feet.

[baltic_dragon]

Hehe, I know what you mean. It took me long time to learn how to use them and still chasing them does not make too much sense until you really use your TACAN and HSI to get properly aligned. I will be taking notes about possible changes / updates to the training missions during the Christmas break, so I will take that into account. Thanks for all the feedback!

[firmek]

Hehe, I know what you mean. It took me long time to learn how to use them and still chasing them does not make too much sense until you really use your TACAN and HSI to get properly aligned. I will be taking notes about possible changes / updates to the training missions during the Christmas break, so I will take that into account. Thanks for all the feedback!

I've got to the same conclusion. During one flight I've got so much focused on chasing the dashed line that I’ve ended up flying a snake pattern straight into the see. At least it was a good lesson :) After that I've started to put priority on all other instruments, using TACAN/HSI, ADI alt and treating the dashed line with the lowest priority. Actually, when I come to think about it maybe it’s a good idea to try out the mission with HUD off.

[Azrayen]

About the speed question:

230 is the max recommended speed for lowering the L/G. That's also the speed under which the "gear not down" caution is triggered (it makes the lever blink red).

 

There is no "fixed" approach speed that you've to aim to. You fly the glideslope, and take the correct approach AoA (14°). The speed you'll get as a consequence will be OK, and will depend on your weight (mostly).

 

As guidelines:

Many people in DCS tend to forget about their aircraft weight before attempting to land. That's a mistake. Max (normal) landing weight is 9.9 tons. Up to 12.3 tons for Max (heavy aircraft) landing weight ; the latter requires precautions re: sink rate at touchdown, runway available lenght...

Speed limit for main gear wheels is ~200kt IIRC.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Azrayen

[ZeeMan90]

[...] (after talking with the tower and waiting for the double needle to reach 121), or maybe after turning to 121 when some of the info might be passed. The waypoint 2 can be selected early. It helps but at the final stage the workload can be reduced by it being already selected..

 

This confused me too. Some instant feedback would be nice. Otherwise people start to question the way they execute instructions. Perhaps more Radio messages from the instructor constantly providing feedback on how the heading is not right or speed is too high. Additionally they could add some sort of animation of instruments in the upper left corner. The animation will show you how it should look like when used right.

 

Another thing that is not really dealt with in many plane introductions are the units for speed, altitude and distance: As an European plane does the M2000C use Knots+ feet and NM (what I guess it does) or is it using a different standard for the aforementioned entities?

For Russian planes I only know its km/h, whereas for altitude(meter or feet) and distance (NM or km) I am unsure.

Thanks to Ace Combat I am so used to the American standard that everything else is confusing :D

Edited May 6, 2017 by ZeeMan90