Para_Bellum Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) I'm looking for information on the actual tactics used by Viggens (or similar supersonic ground attack AC) during low-level attacks against naval and ground targets, especially pertaining to the use of 2-ship and 4-ship formations for squad training. Ingress/egress parameters, pop up distances, use of countermeasures, formation changes, attack distances and directions, communication etc... I appreciate any info, thanks in advance! Edited January 15, 2017 by Para_Bellum
104th_Maverick Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 I found this after a quick search, not had time to go through it just yet however it does mention ... "descriptions of sensitive onboard systems such as weapons, radar etc, as well as an overview of some typical mission profiles." Hope it helps! https://tanks.mod16.org/2016/08/29/saab-aj-and-ajs-37-viggen-flight-manuals-sfi/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 104th Phoenix Wing Commander / Total Poser / Elitist / Hero / Chad www.104thPhoenix.com www.facebook.com/104thPhoenix My YouTube Channel
BritTorrent Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Yeah I'd be interested in this too. Most of the information of this sort that's out there is in Swedish. Not a great deal of it has been translated to English.
Para_Bellum Posted January 15, 2017 Author Posted January 15, 2017 ;3017496']I found this after a quick search' date=' not had time to go through it just yet however it does mention ...[/quote'] Thanks, Maverick. Unfortunately, my Swedish is a bit... rostig. :huh: Information in English would be very helpful.
microvax Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Run OCR then google translate, then merge alternating pages so you can have english and swedish next to each other in two page view. Works fine for me. :) There is pratically no english information except the ja37c manual. There was never a need for english info. So it doesnt exist pretty much. At least not in the quantity you are asking for. :) Asking the russian secret service for russian information is probably more likely to have relevant returns then anyone else for english. :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?
Para_Bellum Posted January 15, 2017 Author Posted January 15, 2017 Just tried OCR and Google translate with mixed results. Maybe Tornado manuals could be used. Tactics should be fairly similar.
Farks Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 The closest thing we have right now is the tactical manual for the A 32A Lansen. Yes, it's the wrong aircraft but much of the doctrine and tactics remained unchanged when the Viggen took over the attack role. And it's a swedish manual.
renhanxue Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) As Farks says, what you want is the publication Taktiska anvisningar för attackförband, or "Tactical advisory for strike squadrons". For the Viggen's predecessor, the Lansen, these manuals have been declassified and you have one there at Farks' link. I requested to have a later version (from the early 1980's, IIRC) declassified about half a year ago but the mills at the national archives grind very slowly sometimes. On a high level the tactics with the Viggen remained similar to the ones used on the Lansen, but due to the improvements on the newer aircraft I believe the Viggen would have enabled more independent tactics and above all much more aggressive flight profiles because of its higher speed and acceleration. e: this anecdote may be of interest as well Edited January 15, 2017 by renhanxue 1
Almaril Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 Thanks, Maverick. Unfortunately, my Swedish is a bit... rostig. :huh: Information in English would be very helpful. Here is a translation for you. Let's just say I had a serious case of Viggen fever yesterday and decided to translate chapter 1, 3, 4 and 6 of TAA 61. The other chapters fellt less relevant or out of date for DCS realities and Viggen in particular (and I was running out of steam) so I focused on the stuff that felt most applicable. Ch.1: Foundations for the actions of Strike Aviation Ch.3: Target types, missions and choice of payload Ch.4: Methods of attack Ch.6: Strike mission @Fellow swedish speakers: Some of my translations might well be iffy or straight up sub-par, so if you have any suggestions for changes please leave them in the document as comments. :) 12
spiddx Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 Here is a translation for you. Thank you very much! Good work and very interesting read. :thumbup: Specs: i9 10900K @ 5.1 GHz, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, MSI Z490 MEG Godlike, 32GB DDR4 @ 3600, Win 10, Samsung S34E790C, Vive, TIR5, 10cm extended Warthog on WarBRD, Crosswinds
Tackle Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 Here is a translation for you Thank you very much Sir! A great way to make a first post [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Almaril Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Thank you very much Sir! A great way to make a first post I've been lurking for some time, this simply prompted me to participate. :) Also already made a couple of changes following input on translation details ("eskader" as "wing" rather than "fleet" being the obvious one), so thanks everyone for that.
MBot Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Thank you Almaril, this is very interesting. I would like to know more about the organization of the units. From what I understand, wings of 54 aircraft were organized into 3 squadrons with 18 aircraft each. It seems that the tactical groupings for operations are 1-2-4-8 aircraft. So would a squadron be expected to sustain 2 divisions of 8 aircraft for combat while having 2 aircraft unavailable due to maintenance (8+8+2=18 )? Is the O-bas the peace time maintenance base? So for example for F6 it would be Karlsborg? So when a wing disperses to its wartime locations, how many aircraft would typically deploy to road bases? A division of 8 aircraft per road base, or just a group of 4?
RaXha Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Is the O-bas the peace time maintenance base? So for example for F6 it would be Karlsborg? So when a wing disperses to its wartime locations, how many aircraft would typically deploy to road bases? A division of 8 aircraft per road base, or just a group of 4? The "O-Base" is the standard peacetime base so yes in the F6 case it would be Karlsborg. I would assume that all of the available aircraft on the base would be dispersed to different war-bases and/or road bases, since the location of the peacetime bases are well known to the enemy it would be a terribly bad idea to leave any hardware behind. :-)
MBot Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 I figured that all aircraft would disperse. What I meant is how many aircraft each individual dispersion base would take up (and by extension, on how many bases a wing would disperse). Since the division of 8 seems to be an important tactical element, that would be a logical number. But since a squadron of 18 is not dividable by 8 without spares, where do the spares go? Perhaps each squadron will deploy to two bases, with a full division plus one spare aircraft each? So 6 diversion bases per wing?
RaXha Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 I found a writeup on the different variations of base organisations we have had through the century. http://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/text/bas/dispersed_basing.html
Fri13 Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Thanks, Maverick. Unfortunately, my Swedish is a bit... rostig. :huh: I think you don't mean "rosting" but "sinking"? :lol: i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.
BritTorrent Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 I found a writeup on the different variations of base organisations we have had through the century. http://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/text/bas/dispersed_basing.html Just had a quick glance through this site and it seems to have quite a lot of useful information.
Farks Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 If I'm not misstaken, a squadron in the air consists of eight aircraft. The rest are spare or on rotation.
Almaril Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 @Farks: That is my understanding as well. The spares are probably hidden away in the vicinity of or on some of the bases. Looking at the link posted by RaXha: "Bases had the capacity to keep more than one squadron at a time in the air and generally had the main task to fully serve either attack/reconnaissance squadrons or fighter squadrons and always a secondary task to at least refuel and launch any kind of aircraft. "
Para_Bellum Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 Here is a translation for you. Let's just say I had a serious case of Viggen fever yesterday and decided to translate chapter 1, 3, 4 and 6 of TAA 61. The other chapters fellt less relevant or out of date for DCS realities and Viggen in particular (and I was running out of steam) so I focused on the stuff that felt most applicable. Ch.1: Foundations for the actions of Strike Aviation Ch.3: Target types, missions and choice of payload Ch.4: Methods of attack Ch.6: Strike mission Thank you very much! :thumbup:
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