Corrigan Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Is it supposed to be this hard to pull up smoothly on take-off? Even with my extension on the warthog it's hard to pull up through the 13 degrees to the top of 3 degree poles smoothly. A few degrees nose up trim helps but I still end up with no give, and then suddenly going too far. Thoughts? Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Is it supposed to be this hard to pull up smoothly on take-off? Even with my extension on the warthog it's hard to pull up through the 13 degrees to the top of 3 degree poles smoothly. A few degrees nose up trim helps but I still end up with no give, and then suddenly going too far. Thoughts? Takeoff pitch trim setting seems to have a big impact on rotation behaviour. Havent done any serious testing on it but thats the impression i get having practised more than 200 takeoffs and landings. I find that starting the pull back a couple of seconds before reaching rotation speed helps alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrigan Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Am I really the only one that feels that the aircraft is a struggle to get off the ground smoothly? Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladinsky Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 It does feel kind of heavy but the nose seems to come up pretty fast when you use the rotation speeds listed in AJS37 Del2 kap IV sida 11, I've only really tried zone 3 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Am I really the only one that feels that the aircraft is a struggle to get off the ground smoothly? Have you tried to start a pull back at around 250km/h and as it eases off on nose gear, gently easing the stick forward? I should add that 99% of my takeoffs so far has been with no payload or only x tank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbaxx Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Am I really the only one that feels that the aircraft is a struggle to get off the ground smoothly? No, I feel this too, it's impossible to start rotating before a certain speed, it's like elevons doesn't have authority before that speed. If you pull the stick full aft as soon as you start, nothing will happen until you suddenly have your nose looking at the sun :) So to take off smoothly I need to apply pitch up after this speed. If I start pulling before I tend to pull too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac5 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Am I really the only one that feels that the aircraft is a struggle to get off the ground smoothly? Same feeling here. Though, as reported by others, trim up helps. Mainboard: ASUS Maximus X Hero Intel Z 370 CPU: Intel Core i7-8086K @ 4.0 GHz Memory: 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3000 Graphics Card: ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10GB Monitor ASUS PA 329 32" @ 4K 1 SSD Samsung 860 PRO 256 GB 1 SSD Samsung 860 PRO 4 TB Windows 10 - 64 V. 2004 CH Pro combatstick, throttle and pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrigan Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 No, I feel this too, it's impossible to start rotating before a certain speed, it's like elevons doesn't have authority before that speed. If you pull the stick full aft as soon as you start, nothing will happen until you suddenly have your nose looking at the sun :) So to take off smoothly I need to apply pitch up after this speed. If I start pulling before I tend to pull too much. This is wrong, then. Surface authority should turn-on smoothly with airspeed obviously. Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbaxx Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Nose heavy on rotation? This is wrong, then. Surface authority should turn-on smoothly with airspeed obviously. You can always try to do a aerodynamic brake when landing: -Softly raise nose to max alpha 16 -put nose wheel on ground at about 160kmph - steer and wheel brake - reverse if needed Do it with a clean ac with less than 80% fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Sized Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) This is wrong, then. Surface authority should turn-on smoothly with airspeed obviously. If the main gear is far back on the aircraft (think naval planes, then remember how the Viggen is designed to be landed), the nose will be essentially unresponsive below rotation speed and extremely sensitive above rotation speed. This is something the F-4 was absolutely notorious for. For a reasonable takeoff run you pulled the stick to the aft stop and waited until Vr, at which point the nose would shoot up without warning. You had to let the stick forward a considerable amount to avoid a tailstrike. So it's not unheard of. Just takes lots of practice to perfect. Edited February 23, 2017 by Pocket Sized DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule. In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrigan Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Okay, well, fair enough. I should perhaps add that my experience is limited to simulated aircraft (and common sense + physics degrees). It's just that I've not seen anything mentioned in the SFI about this being an issue. Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbaxx Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Doesn't the canard flaps create a nose up and that's why the elevons are dropped to counteract this? If so, when you give stick aft the canard flaps should make the nose go up? Either way, with zone 3 you should according to the SFI be able to rotate at 190kmph, if you are low weight it is even less but the restriction is 190. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Sized Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Yes, the flaps create a nose up moment. Without them, the nose would be even heavier during the takeoff run ;) The current behavior is believable in my opinion but I have no idea if it's accurate to the Viggen. DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule. In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flo57100 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Set your trim to 5, and slightly pull the stick during take off roll to ease load on the nose gear. Your airplane will take off almost by itself ! Edited February 26, 2017 by flo57100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrigan Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Okay, so I can see two issues here. First, the suddenness with which the plane is willing to rotate, which I can kinda see as plausible now as per Pocket Sized's post. The second issue is that the plane does not rotate when it should according to the SFI, as outbaxx has found. Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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