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ASP: flagrant inconsistencies with the manual

Harle

By Harle
in MiG-21Bis

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Harle

Harle

Posted
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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure if you understood me right. So I'll try to rephrase the question:

 

Is it true that the ANGLES knob jumps back to zero when the highlighted swithes are set as shown in the picture below?

jh.thumb.jpg.76b6ee17e0ec918ebfc27caa4a111247.jpg


Edited by Harle
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finger

finger

Posted
Posted

GROUND-1-true

GROUND-2-true-but zero must be set manualy.In bombing mode, switch AUT-MAN must be

always set to MAN

 

GROUND-3-false-in this case must be set proper angle for RKT(S-5M/K, S-24)Weapon selector has not effect on settings.

AIR-1-true

AIR-2-false-weapon selector has not effect on settings.There is possibility to fire S-5M(only) on air target in cooperation with DUAS 61-14,whitch is used for measurement of complimentary

angle of attack and angle of side slip.In flight there will be always deviation from zero.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Harle

Harle

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Posted (edited)
GROUND-1-true

GROUND-2-true-but zero must be set manualy.

 

This seems to be mutually exclusive to me. Could you explain please?

How can it possibly be set manually when, according to your "true", the knob is supposed to be locked in zero automatically with the given switch positions?

 

In bombing mode, switch AUT-MAN must be always set to MAN

 

Let's not consider what there must be, for the time being. Because I'm not trying to follow standard procedures now. Just looking for possible switch combinations that trigger automatic return to zero of the ANGLES knob.


Edited by Harle
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finger

finger

Posted
Posted
This seems to be mutually exclusive to me. Could you explain please?

How can it possibly be set manually when, according to your "true", the knob is supposed to be locked in zero automatically with the given switch positions?

 

 

 

Let's not consider what there must be, for the time being. Because I'm not trying to follow standard procedures now. Just looking for possible switch combinations that trigger automatic return to zero of the ANGLES knob.

 

Hmm,I do not understand you.Tell me please,why are you testing something,what does not sense?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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finger

finger

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Posted
Just wanted to know what triggers the knob's automatic return to zero. That's all.

Well,but which one do you mean?The real ASP,or this from simulation?You know, real gunsight is not a toy,so you can not switch what you want and testing gunsight from simulation ispointless

for now.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Harle

Harle

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Well,but which one do you mean?The real ASP

 

Yes:yes:

 

real gunsight is not a toy,so you can not switch what you want and testing gunsight from simulation ispointless

for now.

 

Ok. Then how do you think we should go about it, in order to find out if the simulated ANGLES knob replicates the behavior of the real one?

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finger

finger

Posted
Posted
Yes:yes:

 

 

 

Ok. Then how do you think we should go about it, in order to find out if the simulated ANGLES knob replicates the behavior of the real one?

 

OK perfect-I see that you have english piloting manual with checklist of ASP.

I have the checklist for technician of weapon systems,but it is wrote by czech.

Do you want to see it?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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finger

finger

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Posted
Sure. Let me see it. It's not like I have a choice in terms of language.

I hope you don't mind if I'll be PMing you whenever I can't understand something.

 

https://forums.eaghttps://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=158133&stc=1&d=1488202350le.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=158132&stc=https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=158134&stchttps://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=158135&sthttps://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=158136&stc=1&d=1488202440c=1&d=1488202418=1&d=14882023851&d=1488202122

857229894_Tech.check1.thumb.png.4e3e11d8eccdc9bfafd64f0980f8f094.png

1645308612_Tech.check2.thumb.png.f8b0cc962b4bd70e9a928e4ccf3ef093.png

1779320736_Tech.check3.thumb.png.f42c4ccaf0d477c117978bd7fce91e60.png

1664609854_Techcheck4.thumb.png.af7af4e0baadc48803fb53b74ee6e27b.png

1816126407_Beznzvu.thumb.png.19ab11221da0907754d7c43cb7bea29a.png

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Frederf

Frederf

Posted
Posted

I am also curious about:

1. pipper mirror (CC mode)

2. angle scale

3. angle knob

 

Are any of these items physically connected and must have the same position? Which items can move independently? Is it possible for angles knob to be set for 2° but angles scale to show a different value? Is the angles knob possible to move (by electric motor) without the pilot touching it?

 

On a different topic I want to know about this part of the sight:

attachment.php?attachmentid=158151&stc=1&d=1488233996

Is it correct that the scale (green arrow) is for predicting the kinematic range of air to air missiles based on speed and altitude with no consideration for any radar lock distance?

 

What information is shown by lights (red arrow and blue arrow)?

missilerange.jpg.029fe8835d9fa6a30c46de8901932386.jpg

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foxbat155

foxbat155

Posted
Posted
is it correct that the scale (green arrow) is for predicting the kinematic range of air to air missiles based on speed and altitude with no consideration for any radar lock distance?

 

Yes, that correct.

 

What information is shown by lights (red arrow and blue arrow)?

 

For illumination only, if I remember correctly left is red, right is white.

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  • 3 months later...
Dugong

Dugong

Posted
Posted
It's been a while. Any plans on dealing with the mentioned ASP issues?

Dolphin? Anyone?

 

I think this module has defacto been abandoned by the devs. There was a brief flurry of activity just after the announcement of the liquidation of the Leatherneck Studio as a legal entity and the formation of Magnitude, but since then little to nothing. And this comes after the mig-21 was barely worked on for 12+ months whilst the viggen was developed.

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Gunny Highway

Gunny Highway

Posted
Posted
Come on guys, the MiG-21 got bug fixes for every patch since the split !!

See by yourselves: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=147601&page=5

We never saw that when you considered the module "active"

 

Nobody is arguing that magnitude didn't make any updates, they made some rather drastic changes shortly after splitting. People (at least I am) are concerned because there hasn't been much info out of magnitude for a few weeks. And now it appears the bug tracker page is down. Maybe they are just busy with their day jobs, but I would hope they could just drop us a line on here. MiG21 is one of the best modules, one of my favorite to fly, but it has developed some warts over the past few updates with little response from Magnitude.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vsd0o5MT4FGzkWjaEucVg

 

Combat Vet, Couch Pilot

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Gunny Highway

Gunny Highway

Posted
Posted

 

weird, working for me now too. Yet no issues "resolved" on there in about a month. I think the last thing I saw from Magnitude was that they were having trouble fixing the cockpit lights because Cobra (who left) was the one who initially did the work.

 

Honestly, I understand it might take a while to fix. These guys probably all have other jobs they have to attend to. I just hope the module regains its former glory.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vsd0o5MT4FGzkWjaEucVg

 

Combat Vet, Couch Pilot

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  • 7 months later...
streakeagle

streakeagle

Posted
Posted

This remains the best thread on tracking ASP progress despite its 8 month age. I just did some testing in 2.5 and confirmed the issues I am interested in haven't changed in years.

1) Axis mapping for radar range cursor/manual gunsight range is still wonky. This but crept in a long time ago. It reaches min scale when the axis is about 50% rather than when the axis is at full deflection.

2) Adjusting wingspan and range has zero effect on pipper size. This gunsight looks a lot like the P-51 and F-86 for a reason: it works a lot like them, especially the F-86 since it has both manual and radar ranging.

3) The lead computing seems too inaccurate. This comment is subjective as I don't know how accurate the real one is/was, but if it works anything like the gunsights it was based on, I expect steady state conditions within a fairly close range to hit the target.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Frederf

Frederf

Posted
Posted

The span-pipper relationship is sort of working but it's based on the wrong distance scale. It's using the 9km scale for a lot of things when it should only do it for radar ranging AA missiles in the automatic mode.

 

The highest span setting is 70m. At what distance is the pipper minimum size equal to 1.25 degree? It's 3209m. When you set the range needle to the "900m" position on the 2km scale it's also at the 3.2km position on the 9km scale. ASP is thinking that 70m span + 3200m range = 1.25 degree pipper.

 

At minimum range input the pipper is clamped to minimum size until span increases to 18m. Given the minimum size that means the range is ~825m, a reasonable bottom of the 9km scale.

 

The throttle twist shouldn't move the needle in auto mode for AA missiles anyway. When you are rotating the throttle handle to change the radar lock zone distance the sight distance needle shouldn't move at the same time. It will move the radar marks or directly control the range needle but never both at the same time. There is a third use for the throttle rotate which is sensitivity of filter when in the active jamming mode. When the throttle is adjusting jamming filter it cannot be used for radar range nor sight range.

 

When manipulating the radar by the throttle handle the sight range needle should point to 600m which is the range input when the radar is not tracking a target. It doesn't matter how much you make the - mark move up and down the scope, the needle will stay pointed at the "I am not tracking any target so I guess I will just output 600m" distance. Only when the radar is actually tracking a target will the sight distance needle be at a different position than 600m and of course turning the throttle handle will have no effect on either radar or sight after the radar is tracking.

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