Su-27SM

[Alfa]

Yes that's what I could gather about the R-77/RVV-AE as well.

 

I don't know about the "all Ukrainian" bit though.....the R-77 was under development in the latter part of the eighties - making it an "all Soviet" effort. As I understand it, with the break-up of the Soviet Union, the Vympel association was split up with the manufacturing part remaining in Ukraine while the design part moved to Russia......so it could simply be a case of the R-77 not entering service in the early post-Soviet era because there weren't any operational aircraft(aside from a few MiG-29S) capable of deploying it and the "RVV-AE" merely being an improved and refined version developed since then by "all Russian" R&D section.......perhaps mainly for export orders for advanced Su-30 versions and Indian MiG-21/MiG-29 upgrades, while only now becoming relevant for domestic Russian use with the recent upgrade programs.

 

On another related note, the "domestic only" rule meant that not only were the R-77s slashed from Russian service, but so were the R-27s, whose seekers were also produced in Ukraine. There was never word on a Russian-produced R-27, which means that the Russian AF is basically living off a decade's old supply of R-27s...

 

Hmm - are you sure about seekerhead bit Evil?. AFAIK the SARH seeker of the R-27R/RE is called "9B-1101K" and was produced by AGAT. Moreover, as mentioned earlier in this thread, AGAT is offering the 9B-1103M ARH seeker which fits the R-27 missile.....so it doesn't sound like the issue is with seekerheads, but rather with the R-27 missile as such(which is/was built by the Ukrainian factory).

 

- JJ.

[EvilBivol-1]

What about the R-33 and the R-73 missiles?

Don't know about those, good question.

 

P.S. There have been at least two -SM cockpit shots released:

[EvilBivol-1]

I don't know about the "all Ukrainian" bit though.....the R-77 was under development in the latter part of the eighties - making it an "all Soviet" effort.

 

That's correct. But the question is not in developmet, but production...

...the "RVV-AE" merely being an improved and refined version developed since then by "all Russian" R&D section

 

Well, thats the big question: how does the Russian-produced RVV-AE compare with the original, Ukranian-produced R-77? Earlier, it was thought that it was "downgraded", but this may or may not be the case. Note, you're right in that the original design came from one place. It was only a question of production location. I.e. the Russians did not want to rely on weapons produced, even if only partially, somewhere else.

 

Where did export R-27's came from then?

Thats another good question. Pure speculation here, but seeing as it was for export, it could have very well been produced the same way it was produced prior to the break-up of the USSR. In other words, if the weapon is for export, there is no "domesitc-only" rule applied... Or perhaps the R-27 question has more to do with budgeting than rules, meaning that the AF simply didn't want to waste whatever meager money they had on a already obsolete weapon and instead invested in the future (RVV-AE), figuring that the R-27 stockpile is large enough to cover their needs. :confused:

 

P.S. This "rule" is supposedly undergoing some adjustment as the military accepts the fact that domestic industry is simply incapable, at least at the moment, of producing realiable equipment at the desired cost.

[Alfa]

My point is that the proposed "R-27AE" was rejected although the seekerhead for it(9B-1103M) is a Russian product.

 

The explanation being that pursuing it would mean either spending money upgrading old stock pile R-27 missiles or/and importing new ones from Ukraine.....neither of which being acceptable solutions.

 

- JJ.

[EvilBivol-1]

Which makes sense and fits right into my edited post above. But again, that is even mroe speculative than the original topic! :D

[Dudikoff]

On a related note, the MiG-31 (as perhaps, finally, the -29 as well) is also on the verge of an upgrade program, though no details have been made public yet.

 

There was an article a week ago saying that the first modernised MiG-31 (no mention of its designation) completed its first test flight. The article mentioned something about intercepting targets at 200+ kms so if it might mean that at least R-37s are supported (maybe even all six of them as was the payload of the M variant). Six R-37s and 4 R-77s are quite respectable (R-77s for self-defense).

[Dudikoff]

The MiG-31 does not support the R-77 missile - "only" R-33, R-40 and R-60.

 

R-40TD only, to be exact and R-33S also ;)

 

The video clip you have seen must have concerned the MiG-31M, which was a further development of the MiG-31 with an upgraded and more powerful version of the Zaslon radar(Zaslon-M) which supports the R-77. However, the MiG-31M didn't enter service and only exists in prototype form(a handful or so airframes).- JJ.

 

Or MiG-31BM which also had a few prototypes made.

[EvilBivol-1]

Hmm - are you sure about seekerhead bit Evil?. AFAIK the SARH seeker of the R-27R/RE is called "9B-1101K" and was produced by AGAT. Moreover, as mentioned earlier in this thread, AGAT is offering the 9B-1103M ARH seeker which fits the R-27 missile.....so it doesn't sound like the issue is with seekerheads, but rather with the R-27 missile as such(which is/was built by the Ukrainian factory).

Sorry, missed that part. You're probably right, I was making an assimption on the seeker. But regardless, as long as any part of a system is produced elsewhere, it was no good. Again though, this is changing to some extent today.

 

...at least R-37s are supported...

They are indeed, but these are (again... :D) not the same R-37s that existed originally. What the differences are is unknown, at least to me.

[Alfa]

R-40TD only, to be exact and R-33S also ;)

 

Nitpicker :D

 

Or MiG-31BM which also had a few prototypes made.

 

Yes that's right - forgot about that. I am not too familiar with the MiG-31BM, but I believe it is a case of upgrading existing MiG-31s with systems developed for the MiG-31M - i.e. a more cost effective solution that doesn't include the airframe refinements realised on the MiG-31M :) .

 

- JJ.

[tflash]

Well, according to the latest press releases the Upgraded Mig-31BM trials are proceeding as planned.

 

- improved Zaslon-AM control suite

- MFLCD for WSO

- R-73, K-37M AAM's, I also found reference in AFM to the R-77M on this aircraft.

[wasserfall]

And there are some more upgrades that come with the SU27SM!!

 

An upgraded version of the K36 ejection seat!!!!

 

[Force_Feedback]

There is also one other, quite interesting deatail IMHO on the Mig-31BM, you're never gonna believe it, but it has service markings (attatch this there, grounding point here, etc.) in English

 

WTH is a 'Uroflowmeter?', does it measure how much you pee? Well, no need for a computer for that, just take some jerrycan/jug with markings, and tinckle away :music_whistling: