Locktone from friendly SAM

[Wingthor]

When friendly SAM locks on to an enemy aircraft, I get a lock tone warning from it in my EWR, should this consider a BUG, or is it like this in real?

 

Regards

[Retu81]

You do get a lock warning if you are between an enemy aircraft and the friendly SAM. RWR doesn't know that the radar is trying to lock on to the enemy aircraft. All it does know is that the radar has stopped sweeping and is now constantly pointing in your direction -> lock warning.

[Wingthor]

You do get a lock warning if you are between an enemy aircraft and the friendly SAM. RWR doesn't know that the radar is trying to lock on to the enemy aircraft. All it does know is that the radar has stopped sweeping and is now constantly pointing in your direction -> lock warning.

 

I have no indication on that you have to be between the enemy aircraft and the SAM. Question is can't the SU25T RWR distinguish between a friendly and enemy SAM, or is it a BUG.

 

Makes the SAM look hostile :(.

[OnlyforDCS]

The answer is, no it can't.

[Retu81]

I have no indication on that you have to be between the enemy aircraft and the SAM. Question is can't the SU25T RWR distinguish between a friendly and enemy SAM, or is it a BUG.

 

Makes the SAM look hostile :(.

 

To RWR all radars are hostile. Like a smoke detector it can't tell a difference between an actual fire or a burnt dinner. It's the pilot's job to determine if the radar painting the aircraft actually is a hostile one.

[Wingthor]

To RWR all radars are hostile. Like a smoke detector it can't tell a difference between an actual fire or a burnt dinner. It's the pilot's job to determine if the radar painting the aircraft actually is a hostile one.

 

Well I must say, I am not used to that behavior in other aircraft's, that you get a lock tone when your mate is locking an other airplane, do you know this or guessing?

[Retu81]

Well I must say, I am not used to that behavior in other aircraft's, that you get a lock tone when your mate is locking an other airplane, do you know this or guessing?

 

TWS lock doesn't give any indication to RWR that it might be locked on. STT mode makes the RWR go bonkers, no matter if it's friendly or not.

 

Think about this: there may be situations where both sides have either same aircraft inventory or have aircrafts coming from the same country. (Ethiopia and Eritrea both flew Russian aircraft in their war, for example.) Or in a more probable situation: a friendly aircraft has mistaken your plane for the enemy and now has a radar lock. How could the RWR differentiate the enemy from friendly in those situations? That's why RWR shows every radar signal it detects and it's up to the pilots to do the actual situational analysis.

[Wingthor]

TWS lock doesn't give any indication to RWR that it might be locked on. STT mode makes the RWR go bonkers, no matter if it's friendly or not.

 

Think about this: there may be situations where both sides have either same aircraft inventory or have aircrafts coming from the same country. (Ethiopia and Eritrea both flew Russian aircraft in their war, for example.) Or in a more probable situation: a friendly aircraft has mistaken your plane for the enemy and now has a radar lock. How could the RWR differentiate the enemy from friendly in those situations? That's why RWR shows every radar signal it detects and it's up to the pilots to do the actual situational analysis.

 

We all know of buddy spikes and buddy locks, question is if a SAMs locks up a enemy airplane in opposite direction of you, should you get a locktone in RWR? I guess it was using a track radar. In my case it was a HAWK.

[OnlyforDCS]

question is if a SAMs locks up a enemy airplane in opposite direction of you, should you get a locktone in RWR?

 

No you shouldn't. There is no way that this should be possible. Are you sure you are not getting locked by a friendly SAM? (They do that sometimes)

[Wingthor]

No you shouldn't. There is no way that this should be possible. Are you sure you are not getting locked by a friendly SAM? (They do that sometimes)

 

Yes the lock comes from a friendly SAM. This is something we experience from time to time causing unintentionally friendly kills. In every situation it is enemy aircraft involved, and from Tacview we can see we are NOT in line of fire. Just nearby. So I am checking if this is normal as it should be, or if it should be regarded as a BUG.

 

And when I say "from time to time" I mean quiet often as I can say as a SU25T Element lead in a squadron, since it is not happening only to me. :) It is very confusing since to be locked up is basically a hostile action, and with no other indications its very easy to fire at it.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Wingthor

[Ironhand]

Yes the lock comes from a friendly SAM. This is something we experience from time to time causing unintentionally friendly kills. In every situation it is enemy aircraft involved, and from Tacview we can see we are NOT in line of fire. Just nearby....

If by "nearby" you mean that you are close enough to fall within the beam's width, then the answer is "yes" you should get a lock tone. It happens frequently in the Su27 when your wingman locks a target when flying off your wing but slightly behind. Your Beriosa lights up and starts screaming. Same difference here except that as the range increases, the beam gets wider.

[Sweep]

I know that with AI fighters they give a lock warning to anything in their search FoV when they lock something...Maybe SAMs are doing the same thing now? IDK

[Wingthor]

Right, from tacview, the enemy fighter is on almost opposite side. I agree with this without being an expert:

No you shouldn't. There is no way that this should be possible. Are you sure you are not getting locked by a friendly SAM? (They do that sometimes)

So back to basic question. Is it a BUG? Guess I will try to make a test mission and investigate further if it appear to be.

[Ironhand]

Right, from tacview, the enemy fighter is on almost opposite side. I agree with this without being an expert:

 

So back to basic question. Is it a BUG? Guess I will try to make a test mission and investigate further if it appear to be.

If it's in the opposite side of the transmitting radar, then it is a bug. But please do experiment to see what the parameters are. That can only help.

[Frostie]

AFAIK it is a bug, friendly SAMs will lock you up when they are locking near by bandits, AI friendly fighters do this too.

[Beamscanner]

IRL even a fixed side lobe from the the tracking radar should trigger your RWR...

 

Your rwr has no idea if its a side lobe or main lobe its receiving.

 

It doesn't know if its receiving a reflection off the mountains.

 

It doesn't know if its you're wingman using a repeater jammer.

 

It has no idea if its friendly or not.

 

It cannot be sure if your the one being tracked..

 

All the rwr knows is that this signal is active at roughly this bearing with these parameters (RF, PRF, PW, Scan) that most match "XXXX" radar system.

 

Depending on the parameters and signal identification, the RWR may give a number of visual and auditory warnings.

 

Even if this is an unintentional bug, its closer to reality than not having this happen.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Beamscanner

[Wingthor]

IRL even a fixed side lobe from the the tracking radar should trigger your RWR...

 

Your rwr has no idea if its a side lobe or main lobe its receiving.

 

It doesn't know if its receiving a reflection off the mountains.

 

It doesn't know if its you're wingman using a repeater jammer.

 

It has no idea if its friendly or not.

 

It cannot be sure if your the one being tracked..

 

All the rwr knows is that this signal is active at roughly this bearing with these parameters (RF, PRF, PW, Scan) that most match "XXXX" radar system.

 

Depending on the parameters and signal identification, the RWR may give a number of visual and auditory warnings.

 

Even if this is an unintentional bug, its closer to reality than not having this happen.

 

Ok, guess we have to live with it. After a while, you kind of get use to it, friendly SAM never fires, but enemy SAMs does :).

 

So SEAD missions must come with experience I guess. Hopefully Mission Designers puts different SAM types on each side, so at least you can separate by the elint pod.

 

Anyway thanks for your input folks!

 

Regards