A better 'democratic' R-27ET Poll ;)

[Frostie]

Ok im glad to hear the other missiles will be worked on ,at the moment its almost embaressing to be hit by an ER.

I don't know about RL record of ER/R but surely its more todo with weak performing Radars rather than the missile ,Lomacs fighters are Russian fighters in their prime.

 

How about ED pork the '15 some more to compensate for your inferiority complex?

 

:mad: WTF is that about ?? If I want have a squabble with someone ill piss off back to school , drop the attitude n0ob. Or do you have issues with peeps not agreeing with your wonderful opinoins.

[Frostie]

If I want balance I'll play BF2, where the aircraft are indistinguishable from each other. Most of us want realism. Check out the poll again.

 

Your really not getting this balance thing are you.

[Pilotasso]

Im sorry frostie, but your CPU argument just doesnt stand a chance. We have planes AFM now, why generalize WAFM for other mathematical methods any different from aircraft?

 

Balance is for space SIM's. Realism implicates gameplay independent from balancing aproach. Unless one missile is obvioulsy more realistic than others. wich is not the case.

[GGTharos]

Ok im glad to hear the other missiles will be worked on ,at the moment its almost embaressing to be hit by an ER.

I don't know about RL record of ER/R but surely its more todo with weak performing Radars rather than the missile ,Lomacs fighters are Russian fighters in their prime.

 

Its RL record is worse than that of some early Sparrows.

 

However I imagine this is more due to maintainance issues that anything else, and perhaps the pilots being very familiar with them.

 

ERs still hit though, they're not really ignorable ...

 

In any case, USAF had flankers and their weapons available very close to the time the flanker went fully operational, so they had a -very- good idea of how to defeat them. ;)

[SVK_Fox]

EM was never produced operationally, IIRC - it was canceled in favor of R77.

R-27's have had an abysmal record in RL, but, we would like to make them 'more reasonable' than RL - ie. make them operate as if they were new ... we will see how all that goes. The goal is to improve all missile seekers in some manner, but not all improvements will be in BS, I think.

 

I expected this answer :lol:

[GGTharos]

Yeah, okay ... and?

[Frostie]

Im sorry if im not being understood but my opinion of balance would be going into battle rifle v smg as opposed to unbalanced being rifle v sword.

Not similair as im being quoted more to do with competitiveness in the respect of realism ofcourse.

Doesn't that make a degree of sense.

[Pilotasso]

Ok im glad to hear the other missiles will be worked on ,at the moment its almost embaressing to be hit by an ER.

 

 

I sorry for this again and be mindfull that its not my intention to womp peaple arround but from a point of view from who flies every aircraft its interesting to observe single plane drivers always complain their weapons/plane are the worst.

 

ER's are as sensitive to chaff as Sparrows are. I have never ever made a complaint about the sparrow and its much decreased range than the ER...wich is realistic. Besides as a flanker driver online my biggest issue with the russian missiles is that they have been missing more to radar lock break than anything else. If your missing too often it must be your tactics. The most common mistake I see online is to fire ER's as soon as they got LA at max range. At that distance it is much more likely all sorts of things could whapen to the missiles seeker while enroute, radar lock loss chaff and clutter. Again Im sorry to say this but 90% online tactics are just plain wrong. Poeple just dont understand the DLZ and then they complain.

 

ER's and EM's work superbly within the no escape zone. Theill get their targets 20 km in a chase. As an eagle pilot online this just puts the AMRAAM to shame and everytime I see that the russian missiles should be uped in detriment to AMRAAM --BTW is BADLY an unfairly dissed on these boards-- just makes me feel insulted as a generalist flier.

 

My challenge is to make these people forget about their BIAS and fly the F-15 and try use the AMRAAM then lets see their excuses.

[GGTharos]

Im sorry if im not being understood but my opinion of balance would be going into battle rifle v smg as opposed to unbalanced being rifle v sword.

Not similair as im being quoted more to do with competitiveness in the respect of realism ofcourse.

Doesn't that make a degree of sense.

 

 

It does, but it isn't feasible. The basic Su-27S which is modelled in LO right now is -not- a match for the Eagle BVR. It is at a decided disadvantage, AIM-120 or no AIM-120.

 

However, the Eagle modelled in LO does not have the abilities than an F-15C -would-, and even the AMRAAM beahaves poorly.

 

You can have balance -and- realism, if in reality things were somehow balanced. In reality, they were not. So you cannot have both ... unless a more modern flanker is modelled :)

 

However I do not believe that ED will unbalance things horribly, that is not the idea - the idea is to model systems such that fairly realistic tactics are forced upon us - to this end you can have a Su-27S whose systems did not fall intot he hands of the USAF for example ... and same with the missiles.

 

So you have to be careful about what you mean when you say realism.

 

Right now, methods for dodging AMRAAM are quite unrealistic - people just fly low and chaff, they look for the dot in the sky that is you and fore back, and they don't even bother going defensive. This is definitely NOT realistic.

 

This combined with the AMRAAM's porked range and 'ET Sniping' have effectively caused some rather unrealistic combat tactics to be used, and -that- is IMHO what we would like to fix.

 

Again IMHO:

 

The intent is not to unbalance the game so that one side will scream bloody murder.

 

The intent is to 'unbalance' the game such that both sides will scream bloody murder. Then you know all's ok :D

[Frostie]

Mate ive flown F15 as much as any other plane and the reason you or I don't complain about sparrow is because we have ARH to back it up unlike Flanker.

The ER's and radar lose lock through chaffing to death its too easy to spoof and a flik of the ecm eliminates lock.

[Frostie]

GG im totally happy with what youve laid out to me ,my thoughts where that only AMRAAM was getting updated but hopefully other's will be too.

[GGTharos]

Same with AMRAAMs. The difference for us is, we see ET's getting sniped at us from beyond our own Rmax with the 120, and racing toward us while we try to close in for a shot.

 

I suggest getting inside burn-though range before firing.

 

As for the AMRAAM update, if you know how to defeat it kinematically, your weapons should still have longer legs, but you just won't be able to go head-on with it and have a good chance of evading it any longer. That's what needed to be changed - basically you -will- have to defend against it, but your weapons still have a range advantage.

 

IMHO, the only people who will be -seriously- complaining about this 'update' are people who fly nice and low, and defeat AMRAAm by flying straight ahead and dropping chaff. The AMRAAM has NOT been turned into an uber missile. More challenging, but nothing you can't handle - I know I dodged it.

[Pilotasso]

Mate ive flown F15 as much as any other plane and the reason you or I don't complain about sparrow is because we have ARH to back it up unlike Flanker.

The ER's and radar lose lock through chaffing to death its too easy to spoof and a flik of the ecm eliminates lock.

 

Flicking ECM porks all missiles in the F-15 and its only sensor. ;) And I dont have to remind you how the Sidwinder performs in this SIM. ;)

 

You just cant count on hitting your targets with a single radar missile in this SIM. They will all miss at least once. The trick is to place your oponent in defensive by calculated missile sacrifices for depleating his countermeasures first, then when hes in the sweet spot you shoot for real. The russian missiles are very good for this. Even more than the AMRAAM is because you can just fly by past them.

 

The only missiles in this game with the capability of one shot one kill are the R-77 and the R-27ET, much thanks to their EOS targeting aid also.

[Frostie]

Go back and read your insulting post about the F15. Read it slow so you understand how someone who flies the '15 might take your comments. Then go back to where I quote you at the top of this response. So now not only do I have a 1337ness ego, but now I'm a n00b? I'll let you in on a little secret, Chucky: If you don't want to have a squabble or deal with an attitude then make sure you don't instigate a fight. If you have anything else you'd like to say then by all means PM me.

 

Now continue on with the discussion, cuz where I stand is that I'd like to see all planes represented realistically. It doesn't matter what plane it is to me. The Russian planes are dangerous with the helmet cam and the Archer, that's a distinct advantage. I'm fine with that, now I'd like to see all the other stuff fixed.

I thought you said I had the complex:D

[GGTharos]

There's no need to argue you two.

 

Anyway certain (reasonable) concerns were caused when it was said that the AMRAAM-C in BS would be more effective. Yes it is. It isn't a death-ray and if you know how to do BVR you don't need to fear it too much ... but you won't be able to ignore it altogether any more :)

[Frostie]

If you want to have the finger pointed at you then thanks for electing yourself , I didnt have any one individual in mind when I originally posted so if youve taken offence more fool you.

Simma down n00b.

I guess this offending article will make you 'Mr. l33t' then and also open for a retaliation of no0b calling. Feel free to call me a no0b again it makes me feel so much younger.:D

[suntrace1]

Look, I want to know only one thing, just one:

 

How big tax cut can we expect for voting?

[Avimimus]

I have read a number of reports that say the -27T can be blind fired with the seeker "going rabid" and heading after the brightest heat source (presumably this would be used up against a large, unmanueverable target and fired in trail).

 

Does anyone actually have good (i.e. non-western, non-journalist) references that contradict this?

[GGTharos]

You can do it. Don't expect it to do much, since it has a very narrow FoV and is about as likely to lock onto a cloud as it is liekly to lock onto your target.

 

The 'bright heat source' means 'broughtest heat source' in its FoV ... which can be -anything- ... and this is something we -cannot- simulate in LO.

 

This is by -no- means a unique feature of the T/ET ... all rosette/reticle heat seekers have this problem.

[GGTharos]

Look, I want to know only one thing, just one:

 

How big tax cut can we expect for voting?

 

No personnal income tax!

[suntrace1]

DAMN

 

and I just ordered a new Bugatti Veyron @$%&!!!

[Guest IguanaKing]

Wow, the first international tax cut! :D

[Avimimus]

You can do it. Don't expect it to do much, since it has a very narrow FoV and is about as likely to lock onto a cloud as it is liekly to lock onto your target.

 

The 'bright heat source' means 'broughtest heat source' in its FoV ... which can be -anything- ... and this is something we -cannot- simulate in LO.

 

This is by -no- means a unique feature of the T/ET ... all rosette/reticle heat seekers have this problem.

 

Good to hear!

 

It might work as a last ditch against an SR-71 (if you could get near enough) or a B-52 (I don't know why everyone is obsessed with fighter vs. fighter).

 

As for the "problem" I read an account that stated the R-3S and the R-60 could both (according to the manufacturer) be used against particularly "bright" ground targets.

[GGTharos]

Eh ... Im not convinced it would do -anything- to an SR-71 unless you got -really- lucky. And I mean -really-. The seeker will happily lock onto the -71 from quite some range in any case, there's no need to throw the missile out blind.

 

And yes, -some- ground targets can be quite 'bright', especially to a cooled seeker ...

 

In any case, because we -cannot- simulate the environment that would screw up a blind heat seeker, we may as well not allow them to launch blind (you're not really losing anything there realistically speaking)

[Force_Feedback]

Well, actually, we shouldn't even have any kind of guided missiles, as lomac doesn't model any limitations they might have, such as ground clutter, clouds, that big orange ball in the sky, rain, fog, aholes popping flares, component malfunctions, seeker heating, pre-warming of seekers (cooling for IR ones :P), radar beam angular errors (which makes the missile go a bit wobbly) and many more.

 

Oh, one 'basic' thing, when will we get the missile tone in Russian jets? HMS is all fun and stuff, but no uncaging capability (something like the 'HMS' in F-4 AF 1.08), neither do the rings change in shape. Sure, I've seen the Ka-50 helmet mounted designation system, that is cool, but how about adding a 'tone' (probably something like a winder tone) for the IR homing, suicidal and explosive flying robots :P