Air to Air, would you buy the M2000C?

[=Pedro=]

Jumper wasn't my wingman... on the contrary, I think they were a flight of two and I was on my own, as always

 

Fair enough :)

[myHelljumper]

All tactics don't work all the time.

 

Point is you don't control airspace flying down low, you have to be high to see far and have long legs.

 

If all you want is kills then yes going down low with any aircraft is the best way, but if you want to protect a friendly flight you have to be high.

 

Don't juge this tactic on one sortie, I can assure you than most of the time it is working well ;).

[dimitrischal]

I love the mirage. No matter what tactics you choose you have to be aggressive to win engagements.

I would buy it again and would pay full price for a D version if one existed.

[Frostie]

Well M2k should fight F-15s and Su27s in 80s setting (aim7/27R/27T) as it is 80s fighter. Super 530 is best 80s missile i would say. However when its facing aim120s and ER/ETs then its outclassed. Thing which is great for mirage thats its currently only (early) 4gen fighter with full fidelity cockpit. But adding to GBU12 bombs: If u drop them with BAD INS bombing mode, then you can toss them over the mountain, which is cool;) . I think M2k is totally worth but keep in mind that its in beta and because of harrier its going to be in beta for little longer then "two weeks" i am afraid... M2k makes u learn how to effectively manage your armament and fuel. In "Git Gud" way...;)

AIM-7F 1977

AIM-7M 1982

R-27R/T 1983-1985

R-27ER/ET 1987-1990

530D 1988

AIM-120B 1994

AIM-120C5 2000

Edited April 19, 2017 by Frostie

[frixon28]

AIM-7 1977

R-27R/T 1983-1985

R-27ER/ET 1987-1990

530D 1988

AIM-120B 1994

AIM-120C5 2000

 

AIM-7 1977? Did it's service not count from when it entered service in the early 60's? Anyway our AIM-7M we have in game entered service in 82-83 I believe.

[myHelljumper]

AIM-7 1977

R-27R/T 1983-1985

R-27ER/ET 1987-1990

530D 1988

AIM-120B 1994

AIM-120C5 2000

 

You are right, the Mirage 2000 with Super 530D could have faced R-27ER/ET.

 

It doesn't make it useless against the Su-27/Mig-29, you just have to compensate for your shorter missile legs :).

[CrashO]

R-27ER/ET 1987-1990

Both 27ER and 27ET entered service in 1990. Disqualifying them from a 80s scenario :D

[myHelljumper]

And the 530D in 88, tight margin here :D.

[jojo]

AIM-7 1977? Did it's service not count from when it entered service in the early 60's? Anyway our AIM-7M we have in game entered service in 82-83 I believe.

 

AIM-7E and prior versions had a narrow firing envelope...

[GGTharos]

AIM-7E had the 'E2' version which completely replaces the E and allowed it to be used as a dogfighting missile, but you had to set it up that way before flight - it required a physical change to the missile to enable the close in algorithms.

So, you basically had to choose ... set up for BVR or set up for WVR :)

 

The AIM-7F did away with this (as well as adding a comparatively huge rocket motor), and the AIM-7M improved on the F significanlty in terms of seeker capability, among other things - IIRC the F entered service in time to be used with F-14's and F-15's rolling out at that time, while the M entered service in '82.

Edited April 19, 2017 by GGTharos

[=Pedro=]

AIM-7E had the 'E2' version which completely replaces the E and allowed it to be used as a dogfighting missile, but you had to set it up that way before flight - it required a physical change to the missile to enable the close in algorithms.

So, you basically had to choose ... set up for BVR or set up for WVR :)

 

The AIM-7F did away with this (as well as adding a comparatively huge rocket motor), and the AIM-7M improved on the F significanlty in terms of seeker capability, among other things - IIRC the F entered service in time to be used with F-14's and F-15's rolling out at that time, while the M entered service in '82.

 

Awesome knowledge:thumbup:

[ZHeN]

R-27R/T 1983-1985

That's not true

Both 27ER and 27ET entered service in 1990. Disqualifying them from a 80s scenario :D

That's not true

 

All R-27 family missiles entered service at the same time period - 1987-1990

[GGTharos]

Hi Zhen, do you have some details on how they entered service?

 

Eg. I recall reading some time ago that the 'E' versions were only supplied in fairly limited quantity and didn't see much use until '91, even then they were not so prolific. Was this in error, or is there some truth to it?

[ZHeN]

I have a perfect tacview where you and me prove the opposite, man ;) you go head on vs flanker at high alt and get killed while I sneak low and kill two :) I'll upload it soon

as promised, here's a video of tacview capture of that fight:

I start first emitting somewhere around 3:15

little note: in this mission there are massive ground EWR's deployed by human pilots in helo's and we have an EWR script enabled. when an EWR sees a target, a message pops up in the top right corner of the screen showing you range, altitude, bearing and heading of the target

so if you stay low, below the EWR coverage, enemy is not getting any message

[ZHeN]

R-27R/T 1983-1985

R-27ER/ET 1987-1990

memory played a bad joke with my mind :( sorry

had to look over my books:

R-27R/T - beginning of flight tests - 1979, entered service - 1984

R-27ER/ET - beginning of flight tests - 1984, entered service - 1987

Hi Zhen, do you have some details on how they entered service?

 

Eg. I recall reading some time ago that the 'E' versions were only supplied in fairly limited quantity and didn't see much use until '91, even then they were not so prolific. Was this in error, or is there some truth to it?

hi GGTharos !

the E versions were produced quite massively

Edited April 22, 2017 by ZHeN

[GGTharos]

Thanks Zhen, I'm trying to figure out where this information cane from about the E versions not being so prolific for the first few years. :).

It may be completely bogus and that's fine too.

[ZHeN]

Well, that's from old soviet books of 90's and military magazines

[Textbook]

Can`t recommend the M2K enough. Far more satisfaction getting kills on multiplayer than with the FC3 planes!

 

Cheers

[nullsys]

I just wanted to pop back and thank you all for suggesting the platform.

 

I absolutely love it!

There is sooo much more satisfaction flying this A2A than anything before.

 

Everything feels natural and easy to use.

I've had better A2A success in this than anything else so far.

Thanks again!

[Chrinik]

Both 27ER and 27ET entered service in 1990. Disqualifying them from a 80s scenario :D

 

 

Incorrect. They entered service in the late 80ies.

 

But how did this become a discussion about R27s again in a thread about Mirage?

Edited May 1, 2017 by Chrinik

[Lymark]

What's the trick in going against F-15/Su-27 at high altitude?

 

Still learning to fight in the Mirage, and I usually have no problem doing sneaky stuff down low. But I feel like naked and half dead whenever I gotta go high with no terrain as cover.

 

Also, any advice in shaking off bandit on my six within gun range? Besides having a wingman and using terrain?

[The_Tau]

Also, any advice in shaking off bandit on my six within gun range?

 

 

Whole defensive BFM part is very interesting

[GGTharos]

Unless your opponent is a poor pilot or has poor knowledge of BFM OR has a very inferior aircraft (the latter is far, far less likely than the other two online), then defensive BFM is very hard. The art of the kill video is great but a little light on details sometimes.

 

A bandit planted (ie. not overshooting, not being left in your dust, not having a horrific heading/crossing angle etc) on your six within gun range is survivable if he has no missiles and you're fast so that you can spoil his aim quickly.

 

If the same situation exists and you're both slow, your goose is cooked unless you get very lucky - that's not say you shouldn't fight for it.

 

In any case, like I said, BFM is hard and takes a lot of reading/knowledge/instruction/practice.

 

I would suggest making the effort to study very hard and practice just as hard:

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-1289.pdf

 

Also, any advice in shaking off bandit on my six within gun range? Besides having a wingman and using terrain?

[ObiWanVA10]

Can`t recommend the M2K enough. Far more satisfaction getting kills on multiplayer than with the FC3 planes!

 

Cheers

:thumbup::joystick::pilotfly:

Because of this.......excellent .......

If its beautiful it flies beautifully. (A RL Cheetah, Gripen and Hawk pilot friend of mine's saying about the Mirages-all of them-)

Edited May 5, 2017 by ObiWanVA10

[jojo]

:thumbup::joystick::pilotfly:

Because of this.......excellent .......

If its beautiful it flies beautifully. (A RL Cheetah, Gripen and Hawk pilot friend of mine's saying about the Mirages-all of them-)

 

That quote is generally associated with Marcel Dassault himself. :smilewink:

There are stories he had the Mirage 2000 fin and Rafale nose redesigned for esthetic reasons.