Frogfoots: heading vs taxiing

[discwalker]

Once upon a time above the sea without any visual reference heading suddenly changed...

 

Su-25A and Su-25T can display wrong heading without battle damage.

Steps to reproduce:

1. Briefing to offline / online (1.5.7.8899.335 or 1.5.6.5199.291)

2. Turn on electronics (RSHIFT+L)

3. Wait to HSI to complete the align (+ Su-25T is more precise in 1.5.7)

4. Start left engine ((in external view the right start rotating instead, A&T))

5. Start right engine ((in external view the left start rotating instead, A&T))

6. Wait to all engines achieve idle

7. Taxi to runway or make a complete turn to left or right, then STOP

8. Wait to HSI to stop moving

9. Verify the heading:

9/a In Su-25A with the F10 map or an outside view

9/b In Su-25T views and HUD-NAVIGATION mode shows the correct heading

HUD-6-LNGT, HUD-7-GND and HSI shows an "another" heading

 

(Switching on and off electronics not fix the problem.)

Edited September 1, 2017 by BIGNEWY
TITLE

[Ironhand]

You might want to post the mission. Just jumped into an Su-25T pit to test and everything was spot on. HUD & HSI for NAV, Longitudinal, A2G, and F10.

[discwalker]

I post a mission with track files.

 

For 100% reproduction rate I don't opened the rearm&refuel window.

It doesnt matter for me which airbase or parking position is the rampstart position.

Payload also not affect the reproduction rate.

That is why I not included mission in the first time.

 

Which Map/Airport/Parking position do you tried?

 

I have a "great" video recording from the first "surprise" for private use.

batumiTowerHeading305vs249-1.5.7.trk

Edited August 31, 2018 by discwalker

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks for the PM discwalker,

 

We will look into it

[BIGNEWY]

Reproduced and reported

 

thanks for the good report, makes things so much easier for us

[Ironhand]

For 100% reproduction rate I don't opened the rearm&refuel window.

It doesnt matter for me which airbase or parking position is the rampstart position.

Payload also not affect the reproduction rate.

That is why I not included mission in the first time.

 

Which Map/Airport/Parking position do you tried?

 

I have a "great" video recording from the first "surprise" for private use.

I used Sochi parked up toward the inland end of the tarmac--don't remember the exact slot. This was SP, however. I sounds like you might be talking about MP.

 

 

 

EDIT: I see it was reproduced. Good.

[Ironhand]

Just wanted to add that I experimented a bit more. The issue occurs if you fail to wait 3 minutes after turning on electrical power before moving. I recall that there had been, at one time, a similar waiting period for the HSI, etc to settle in. It seemed to have gotten more lenient of late. However, the waiting period now seems to have been reimplemented.

[BIGNEWY]

Just wanted to add that I experimented a bit more. The issue occurs if you fail to wait 3 minutes after turning on electrical power before moving. I recall that there had been, at one time, a similar waiting period for the HSI, etc to settle in. It seemed to have gotten more lenient of late. However, the waiting period now seems to have been reimplemented.

 

Thanks for the PM Ironhand,

 

I woke up this morning and ED had already sent me a message saying it takes 3 minutes to align, BIGNEWY has egg on his face for forgetting :) I should fly fc3 more often ;):music_whistling:

[MikeMikeJuliet]

Out of curiosity, should the Su-25 indicate that the align is still in progress? I find it strange that the aircraft indicates a stable (and correct) heading and all is well until you start taxiing around and go flying.

 

Should there be an indicator of any sort for this, or is this just a problem with the real aircraft taking long enough to start up all systems that such an indicator is not needed?

 

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

[BIGNEWY]

From memory there is no indication of the alignment, but I am obviously out of practice with the flamming cliffs aircraft so could be wrong

[Vitormouraa]

From memory there is no indication of the alignment, but I am obviously out of practice with the flamming cliffs aircraft so could be wrong

 

Yeah there is no indication AFAIK, you just wait.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

I know there isn't, but should there be? I assume this align period stems from the real aircraft (even though FC3 avionics are simplified), so does the real thing not have any align indications either?

 

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

[discwalker]

There is indication in the cockpit of the alignment: the analog clock.

 

It is not normal to show an aircraft two different headings on HUD. One aligned somehow and one all knowing God like. Unlikely in the real world to work the navigation needles pointing correctly in the HSI if the alignment is bad. I think the current simulation is inconsistent.

So this is a bug report.

Should we learn we are 3 minutes out of action? Should align or not? Do or don't?

(Su-27 is a FC3 title and has an INS align of 0 seconds.

Mirage 2000C has a quick INS align option in the mission editor.)

I'm on the side of the newbies.

If a newbie saw two different headings, or swithced engine graphics he thinks the game quality is low. And will not buy paid modules. He thinks paid modules also has same quality as the free Su-25T module. :-(

 

((I don't know Frogfoots why not equipped with magnetic compass.))

[Ironhand]

I have to agree with discwalker that the implementation is odd, unless the various modes are pulling their heading information from different sources. And, whether or not this is the case, there needs to be documentation. Unless I missed it completely, there is no mention of the necessity for waiting 3 minutes for the inertial navigation system to align in the DCS manual. And, if they are pulling from different sources, that really ought to be documented as well.

 

Personally, I have no problem waiting for 3 minutes before moving. My usual startup routine takes almost that long, anyway...especially if refilling my coffee cup is a part of the process.

[Alireza.kh]

I have to agree with discwalker that the implementation is odd, unless the various modes are pulling their heading information from different sources. And, whether or not this is the case, there needs to be documentation. Unless I missed it completely, there is no mention of the necessity for waiting 3 minutes for the inertial navigation system to align in the DCS manual. And, if they are pulling from different sources, that really ought to be documented as well.

 

Personally, I have no problem waiting for 3 minutes before moving. My usual startup routine takes almost that long, anyway...especially if refilling my coffee cup is a part of the process.

 

that 3 min waiting has been said in first Su-25T training mission (start up and taxi). but i'm agree with you that it should be in manual too. aslo their manuals need to be updated to replace those FC2 era images.