tflash Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Are Mig-29/Flanker fyers using the Helmet Mounted sight on-line? I was trying it out off-line and found it very useful close after "merge" in a multiple bogey furball, even with the R-77 instead of R-73. Very nice is that the Russian fighters have a magical immediate IFF built-in in Lockon, so that if your radar is on you cannot accidentally shoot a friendly, but nicest is youonly have to lock very shortly the bogey with the HMS, you shoot and then you already look to next target; the R-77 at such short range goes almost directly active and hits the bogey. Small disadvantage is that you have to manually lock, in F4:AF the JHMCS/AIM-9X combo autolocks on the target, which is just awesome! I wonder if people use the HMS online also, because most online fights seem rather BVR than WVR? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Yes they are, with great success. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
golfsierra2 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Very nice is that the Russian fighters have a magical immediate IFF built-in in Lockon, so that if your radar is on you cannot accidentally shoot a friendly..... Not fully correct, you can also lock and kill friends by using Vertical Scan mode. Same with EOS (IRST), no IFF challenge, you can shoot whatever you detect. kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
Geier Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Not fully correct, you can also lock and kill friends by using Vertical Scan mode. Same with EOS (IRST), no IFF challenge, you can shoot whatever you detect. Not always. There were some cases with me when I lock the friend and there wasnt "ПР" on HUD, so I cant hit him. But I didnt find any regularity:huh:
golfsierra2 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Not always. There were some cases with me when I lock the friend and there wasnt "ПР" on HUD, so I cant hit him. But I didnt find any regularity:huh: Maybe the target was not within your weapons envelope ? In our squad, we decided not to use vertical scan anymore if a mate is in close proximity or even in the front hemisphere, cause we had some blue-on-blue by mistake caused by the use of the vertical scan mode. It's dangerous ! kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
tflash Posted January 3, 2007 Author Posted January 3, 2007 Strange, in my case, off-line, If I lock onto a friendly in HMS mode or VS, I cannot shoot. If I pull the trigger nothing happens. Saved the day for my AI wingman often. Could it be there is a difference on-line/off-line? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Geier Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Maybe the target was not within your weapons envelope ? Of course no, I saw that plane was a friend, because he was landing (it was a kind of my joke :)) I mean, I wanted to frighten him and I locked him
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 By default the main sensor the VS mode uses is the EOS, you wont have any IFF feature if you don't manualy turn your radar on. I used to use the HMS within VR online but walmis' F-15 made me fly the Eagle mostly and I got used to it's automatic lock and now when I fly russian fighters I'm using the VS mode. Also in case of a furball it's quiet possible to have more than one plane on the HUD, in that situation if the radar locks a friend you have to unlock it manualy and place the other a/c in the center of the HUD. In this case I use manual lock rather than automatic because it's instanteous while the automatic lock takes more time. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Geier Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 By default the main sensor the VS mode uses is the EOS, you wont have any IFF feature if you don't manualy turn your radar on. I used to use the HMS within VR online but walmis' F-15 made me fly the Eagle mostly and I got used to it's automatic lock and now when I fly russian fighters I'm using the VS mode. Also in case of a furball it's quiet possible to have more than one plane on the HUD, in that situation if the radar locks a friend you have to unlock it manualy and place the other a/c in the center of the HUD. In this case I use manual lock rather than automatic because it's instanteous while the automatic lock takes more time. Heh, how can you identify target after locking it?:huh: Only by shout "Buddy"?!
Pilotasso Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 The helmet has been the migs best budy online. Out in the open, despite the shortcommings of the F-15 in LOMAC, the mig cant compete with the eagle, but since it is smokeless and nearly invisible to eye, they do the most damage sneaking under the radar and shoot when its too late to react. Flankers have more room to breathe in BVR but they can be spotted as a black dot at 15 miles, the helmet is a secondary aid on the flanker yet, very usefull as well. The R-73 in Lomac fails to deliver a bit. It doesnt act like a thrust vectored missile at all wich complicates things in off boresight shots, but then the Sidwinder is in even worse shape. .
golfsierra2 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 I just did a test in FC 1.12a. Myself in a russian MiG-29S, two russian SU-27 coming towards me, 20 km in trail formation. Using normal radar scan, I could lock the first, but the weapon system won't let me fire. With VS, I locked it again, still no LA. With EOS, I could lock and shoot. Second SU-27, I locked in normal mode, no LA. In VS, now I could fire (don't know why). With EOS, sure I could fire. So why somtimes I can and sometimes I can't launch a missile on a friendly target in VS ? kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Heh, how can you identify target after locking it?:huh: Only by shout "Buddy"?! Well I usualy have a letter 'C' on the left of the range scale when I lock an allie with my radar;) Don't you? "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Geier Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Well I usualy have a letter 'C' on the left of the range scale when I lock an allie with my radar;) Don't you? Its on F15?:huh:
golfsierra2 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 The R-73 in Lomac fails to deliver a bit. It doesnt act like a thrust vectored missile at all wich complicates things in off boresight shots, but then the Sidwinder is in even worse shape. Did you notice this thread ? http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?p=280162#post280162 kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Its on F15?:huh: Nope, we all know that IFF isn't working for the F-15. I was refering russian a/c only. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 I just did a test in FC 1.12a. Myself in a russian MiG-29S, two russian SU-27 coming towards me, 20 km in trail formation. Using normal radar scan, I could lock the first, but the weapon system won't let me fire. With VS, I locked it again, still no LA. With EOS, I could lock and shoot. Second SU-27, I locked in normal mode, no LA. In VS, now I could fire (don't know why). With EOS, sure I could fire. So why somtimes I can and sometimes I can't launch a missile on a friendly target in VS ? You can't when you have your radar on and you want to launch a radar guided missile. With radar off there's no way to know who's friend or foe. Therefor, always check with your radar what you have locked. You risk to get yourself compromised but in a team play, especialy WVR it is very important to not shoot an allie. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
golfsierra2 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 You can't when you have your radar on and you want to launch a radar guided missile. With radar off there's no way to know who's friend or foe. Therefor, always check with your radar what you have locked. You risk to get yourself compromised but in a team play, especialy WVR it is very important to not shoot an allie. ID was not the point here. Well, in VS mode my radar is on, and during my test I was able to shoot the second friendly SU-27. It should not be possible, but sometimes it works that way. My question is why ? Are there any circumstances that allow to shoot an own aircraft with radar locked on it ? (Except launch overide..) kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Are you sure you have locked an allie with radar on(with 'A' and 'И' symbols left of the scale) and you had LA? I can't recall to have had such situation. Actualy I just did a small test- if I haven't turned on the radar and switch directly to VS only the EOS is on. If I turn on the radar in BVR and keep it on when I switch to VS I have it online along with the EOS- both 'T' and 'P' symbols. And every time I lock a friend the 'C' letter shows up and no LA for me. That's it, there's no way to have LA on friendly a/c with any of the 'P' or 'И' symbols on the HUD. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
tflash Posted January 3, 2007 Author Posted January 3, 2007 Exactly as Airtito says: if your radar is on, on Russian plane, you cannot get LA on a friendly. Life would be a lot easier if this were to be implemented also on the F-15! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 I just did another test. I locked in VS(only EOS on) a friendly and with IR missiles no problem to have LA. With radar lock, no LA is allowed. However there is a way to have LA with radar on in only one situation- lock the target with EOS(with IR missile) wait for LA, then turn on radar(symbols 'И' and 'C' appear) but the LA remains as long as IR missile is selected. I just sent an R-27ET to a friendly Su-33, no chance for reaction. If I switch to radar guided missiles the LA desappears. So golfsierra2m I think you have had the same situation- locked a friendly with the EOS and IR missile. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
golfsierra2 Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 I just did another test. I locked in VS(only EOS on) a friendly and with IR missiles no problem to have LA. With radar lock, no LA is allowed. However there is a way to have LA with radar on in only one situation- lock the target with EOS(with IR missile) wait for LA, then turn on radar(symbols 'И' and 'C' appear) but the LA remains as long as IR missile is selected. I just sent an R-27ET to a friendly Su-33, no chance for reaction. If I switch to radar guided missiles the LA desappears. So golfsierra2m I think you have had the same situation- locked a friendly with the EOS and IR missile. Either it happend this way or I by mistake activated the radar with a button on my stick. I just did another test after I read the Lock-On Handbook for FC, page 34: " 2-30 Bore Mode Vertical Scan mode selects the IRST sensor by default." Then I tried this: kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
RvETito Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 There you go;) "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Prophet Posted January 3, 2007 Posted January 3, 2007 Yup look, radar not on. Turn it on when you have him locked, you will get the IFF.
Geier Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 Yup look, radar not on. Turn it on when you have him locked, you will get the IFF. But not in F15:mad: :mad: :mad:
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