DCS and Pimax

[Postal2]

Moi je veux , juste pas vu avant ! partage le aussi sur C6 et Hfr ! merci .

Edited April 29, 2019 by Postal2

[Rosebud47]

the problem is that Pitool is a black box in charge of transforming the image provided by the game, to allow it to be seen correctly through the lens of the Helmet. SteamVR is doing nothing here (and I did not use it anymore with the last Pitool version). So basically, SS factor is just defining the size used by the game to render the images. Pitool quality setting is also contributing in the size to render the image, but it may also include some features that enhance the image quality...

And yes, image quality is relative to user. Did you try the Pittol 2.0 settings ?

 

 

Another things: I made a mod that allows Pimax users to avoid to use PP in DCS for the build-in zoom, but also use a new 5x and 10x zoom. For the moment it looks likes nobody is willing to test :-( ...

Could you have a look ? It is here : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=239888

 

Hi Lefenuste,

 

yes, will test your mod and follow your instructions, files and lines you´re pointing to make the VR zoom work again. Will write you back this week. I´m hardly looking for a working VR zoom with the Pimax in DCS, but tested another very nice improvement for the visual quality of DCS with the Pimax in the last days. Let me put my findings a bit separate, but inbetween our discussion, so it could be easily followed up by everyone.

 

Regarding Pitool and the Supersampling process, we could only try and error to find optimum settings. The whole VR thing is more or less a black box, when it comes to specific interfaces.

This is mostly because there´s not yet one standard for all VR devices. Currently we have three companies fighting for standard and first place in the market with standardized interfaces for VR ( Valve, Facebook and Microsoft ).

 

It would be easier, if the Pimax could be connected directly and only via SteamVR compositor, but the Pimax functionality and interface is still in developement, which makes it far away from any standard, like SteamVR is handling.

 

I had long time setting in Pitool of 1.75 and in SteamVR SS 40% to get a flyable performance in DCS and quite good visual quality.

Please correct, if I´m wrong, but in my current understanding the setting in Pitool defines a request on renderresolution. At Pitool 1.0 the requested renderresolution is already much higher, than the native resoultion of Pimax panels. I´m not sure how much of this requested resolution will be finally visible in the panels or just being over the panels edges in a non visible area, but on cost of performance pixel filling rate of the GPU.

I think, the renderprocess starts at Pitool with a defined request through Pitool settings for the renderresolution, then the request is grabbed by SteamVR as the interface between DCS and VR device through openVR API.

With set SteamVR at 100% the request given by Pitool is not changed and forwarded to DCS graphics engine. But if the request is already supersampled by Pitool, any additional supersampling by SteamVR ( e.g. 140% ) effects in potentialized supersampling process. Not sure if this procedure is really good as it must be a lot demanding to the GPU with less effects on the perceptible visual quality.

 

When the supersupersampled request reaches DCS, there could be done additional supersampling through PixelDensity of the image the DCS engine creates for the request. In my understanding, DCS PD really supersamples the image in the way of increasing the pixel density of a resolution defined image, whereas SteamVR and Pitool supersamples by resolution only.

... I don´t know, but would be glad to have a common understanding of these processes, to better optimize the settings.

 

Anyway, take a look on some new settings which corrects the tangent space of the Pimax with large FOV mode. Maybe the corrected values could also support the VR zoom issue with Large FOV HMDs.

_____________________________________________________________________

 

Tangent Space ("eye-to-lense-distance") correction for Pimax with Large FOV mode

 

By correcting some values at DCS´ stereo.lua file, the geometrical shape of objects in DCS could be corrected and the 3-dimensional effect with the Pimax in Large FOV mode improved.

Please follow the source link in the end for further explanation.

 

The stereo.lua file could be found in DCS main directory: ../Eagle Dynamics/DCS Open Beta/Config/MonitorSetup

 

The values in the stereo.lua file has to be replaced by following colored ones for Pimax in Large FOV mode:

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Stereo');

Description = 'Stereo render two viewports for left and right eye respectivelly'

Viewports =

{

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1 / 1.62;

eye_shift = -0.032;

--tans of side angles

projection_bounds = {

left = -2.769231,

right = 1.346154,

top = 1.269841,

bottom = -1.269841,

}

},

Right =

{

x = screen.width * 0.5;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 1 / 1.62;

eye_shift = 0.032;

--tans of side angles

projection_bounds = {

left = 1.346154,

right = -2.769231,

top = 1.269841,

bottom = -1.269841,

}

}

}

 

UIMainView = {

x = 0;

y = 0;

 

 

 

For Pimax with normalFOV mode mode the values are the same but for left eye: left = -1.742203 and right eye: right = 1.742203

 

This effects every geometrical object, like switches, cockpit interior, canopy, cockpit itself, clouds, trucks, buildings, hills, mountains.

 

Don´t know, if the aspect ratio in lime color is setup correctly, but followed the advised value from the source: https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/all-the-different-fovs-of-pimax-5k/16053

Edited April 29, 2019 by - Voight -

[lefuneste01]

Moi je veux , juste pas vu avant ! partage le aussi sur C6 et Hfr ! merci .

Fait sur C6 en même temps que sur les forums DCS. Mais pas plus de retours...

[lefuneste01]

For voight : by working with 3Dmigoto and dropping render target of DCS when it computes image, I'm nearly sure that the res. used by DCS to compute image is steamVR/Pitool output res. multiplied by DCS SS. So it will not change image quality to set resolution by using steamVR SS or DCS SS. I think that there is more than just ouput res. in Pitool quality settings. Maybe things like anisotropic filtering or better projection algorithm...only Pimax know...This is why the image is better for the same resolution with pitool at maximum.

And I do not use large FoV, it has too much impact on output res. for what it gives in game.

[Rosebud47]

For voight : by working with 3Dmigoto and dropping render target of DCS when it computes image, I'm nearly sure that the res. used by DCS to compute image is steamVR/Pitool output res. multiplied by DCS SS. (...)

That´s exactly what I think too.

 

Yesterday night just run DCS with Pitool 2.0 and SteamVR SS 20%: The image quality was really good! To get an impression of the image quality, I used to focus on a specific shimmering line in the cockpit and observe the aliasing and strength of shimmering with different supersample settings.

But with Pitool at 2.0 or even 1.75 the performance drops to approx 24ms GPU frametime on my system. My experience is, that everything above 20ms frametime, there are stutters and a strong ghosting effect - I need to have a frametime of approx 15 - 17ms to get a smooth experience. But I also need to say, that my CPU is currently running with default 3.4 GHz, since I set the Bios back to default some weeks ago...definitely need to overclock the CPU again ...

 

Also I need always MSAA x2 in DCS menu to eliminate strong shimmering.

 

I think, if you got a really powerful CPU, System and GPU Pitool at 2.0 and SteamVR SS at minimum SS setting is a good choice. Unfortunately Pitool doesn´t have space in the rendersettings for more finetuning, but SteamVR SS could be scaled in small steps.

 

So I switched back to Pitool 0.5 and SteamVR SS at 150% DCS MSAA x2, DCS PD 1.1 to get a enjoyable frametime below 20ms on every scenario with large FOV. There are always some peaks up and down in the frametime, but not really perceptible while flying.

 

btw. I won´t go back from the large field of view to a smaller one, which surely is a tradeoff with performance - but I love the feeling of flying, speed and situational awareness in the cockpit with large FOV. :)

[Postal2]

Cool , thank's Voight !!!!!

 

And yes i think too , you do overclock your Cpu for better perfs !! .

[Rosebud47]

De ne rien! Je sais, que j´ai besoin overclocking le CPU. :)))

[sanders]

Pimax 5K+ : De la déception à la jubilation totale !

 

Faisant parti des dermiers Backers, j'ai eu la chance de recevoir mi-février un casque "parfaitement fonctionnel".

Neanmois lors de mon premier test j'ai été tres déçu par des "deformations optiques" extremement genantes et un reglage d'ipd inutile. Resultat: retour carton en attendant une Maj de Pitool.

Cette histoire a duré presque 2 mois avec quelques ameliorations mais pas de quoi me satisfaire completement.

 

Et depuis une semaine :

Je n'ai absolument plus aucune deformation optique depuis les dernieres MAJ du firmware du casque (V2.1.255.211) et du pilote Nvidia (430.39) et surtout désinstallé la version Beta de Pitool pour passer a la version officielle (v1.0.0.109). Il faut bien etre conscient que les versions Beta sont faites pour tester de potentielles futures fonctionnalites mais ne sont pas du tout optimisees (a eviter donc).

 

IMPORTANT : Toujours bien faire attention de reinstaller Pitool apres l'installation d'un nouveau pilote Nvidia ! (Dans le doute desinstallez completement PITOOL et reinstallez le).

 

Non seulement le VR COVER du Rift s'adapte parfaitement sur le Pimax en le rendant plus confortable mais il permet aussi de rendre l'image nette en eloignant juste ce qu'il faut les lentilles des yeux.

 

Tout est grand : le FOV, le sweet spot, la definition et pas de Lens Glare ni buée, c'est le futur !

 

Les controleurs ne devraient plus tarder et l'eye tracking promis gratuitement aux Backers se fait encore attendre.

 

Venant du Rift, j'ai achete une base station d'occaz et ca fontionne tres bien en Mode B.

 

Bref, une tuerie absolue avec une 1080Ti, mais on revient de loin. Le père

nous aura bien fait transpirer...

[33-DFTC]

Would you translate your post in english for non speaking french users please ?

[tkcamp]

I updated to the latest pitool and got this anyone knows what it means?

 

 

DX11 Renderer - Error

 

Shader "bazzar/shaders/deferred/blurcomput.fx" failed to

compil. Reason:

warning X4717: Effects depreciated for D3DCompiler_47

error X4586: The total amount of group shared memory (42576

bytes) exceeds the cs_5_0 limit of 32768 bytes

 

g:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bazar\shaders

\deferred\blurcomput.fx(73,20-60): There was an error

compiling expression

 

 

Thanks

Edited May 1, 2019 by tkcamp
adding to

[tkcamp]

It locks up DCS and I have to reboot

[Phantom88]

I updated to the latest pitool and got this anyone knows what it means?

 

 

DX11 Renderer - Error

 

Shader "bazzar/shaders/deferred/blurcomput.fx" failed to

compil. Reason:

warning X4717: Effects depreciated for D3DCompiler_47

error X4586: The total amount of group shared memory (42576

bytes) exceeds the cs_5_0 limit of 32768 bytes

 

g:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bazar\shaders

\deferred\blurcomput.fx(73,20-60): There was an error

compiling expression

 

 

Thanks

Yes,I got this aswell,turn Steam VR Super Sampling to DEFAULT and it should go away.

[tkcamp]

Thank you I will try that when I get home.

[tkcamp]

Lefuneste recommended to turn Steam VR back to 20% and Pitools to 2.0. That's wheat I did and it seemed to work well before I updated Pitools to the newest beta version. I was thinking about rolling it back again

[lefuneste01]

I am using the last beta version with these Pimax settings...Maybe you could check SteamVR settings, they may be reset by a steamVR update (I found that steamVR SS was set back to 100% last day, without any change I made)

[tkcamp]

I checked last night and it was still at 20% ...however I don't know if there might be other settings changed. I also noticed my FPS drop to 15-19 in BOX after the update in Pitools. I am not knowing what to do next

[EvilBert VR]

Heya all.

 

New PiTool 1.0.1.129 Beta Test Release just showed up.

According to Pimax it should fix the ineffectiveness of smart smoothing on N cards among other things.

 

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pitool-1-0-1-129-beta-test-release-for-brainwarp-1-0/19564

 

Curious about the effectiveness.

 

Btw: With my current settings I'm able to get steady 34-36 FPS when playing on the AO server and more when flying offline!

 

Enjoyable!!!

 

Cheers

[Phantom88]

Heya all.

 

New PiTool 1.0.1.129 Beta Test Release just showed up.

According to Pimax it should fix the ineffectiveness of smart smoothing on N cards among other things.

 

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pitool-1-0-1-129-beta-test-release-for-brainwarp-1-0/19564

 

Curious about the effectiveness.

 

Btw: With my current settings I'm able to get steady 34-36 FPS when playing on the AO server and more when flying offline!

 

Enjoyable!!!

 

Cheers

AWESOME!!!! Thanks for info Brother!!!:thumbup:

[dogbite]

.129 Smoothing working well. Unlike before the artifacts are quite minimal. Can now get away with 4xMSAA (in Vegas at least). Nice and smooth even at 36 fps

[Strut]

great Info , thanks all !

[Rosebud47]

.129 Smoothing working well. Unlike before the artifacts are quite minimal. Can now get away with 4xMSAA (in Vegas at least). Nice and smooth even at 36 fps

 

Same here, the new Pitool delivers now a really smooth experience for the headmovement. Got the impression, that ghosting, when coming close to the ground, is also improved.

Now, there only needs to be the VR optimizations for the maps, then there will be an overall smooth experience and ghosting hopefully eliminated, while having stable FPS.

 

Funny thing is, that it seems, that smart smoothing didn´t work before recent update.

[Bob_Bushman]

Same here, the new Pitool delivers now a really smooth experience for the headmovement. Got the impression, that ghosting, when coming close to the ground, is also improved.

Now, there only needs to be the VR optimizations for the maps, then there will be an overall smooth experience and ghosting hopefully eliminated, while having stable FPS.

 

Funny thing is, that it seems, that smart smoothing didn´t work before recent update.

 

Yeah I was running .91 stable since .121 simply was un-playable in DCS without it.

[fabio.dangelo]

Hi guys,

I have a Pimax 4K Visor and NoloVR.

What do you say should I upgrade the firmware of NOLO VR and use the latest PiTool beta or should I use PiPlay and not upgrade the NOLO VR?

 

I hope I explained myself with my bad English

Thank you all

[ram0506]

With the last version of the PiTool nothing has changed regarding the problem with the stuttering/warping of the landscape when rolling an looking to the sides.:(

[funkyfranky]

With the last version of the PiTool nothing has changed regarding the problem with the stuttering/warping of the landscape when rolling an looking to the sides.:(

Strange, for me the last update gave a significant improvement. The problem you mention is still there but much less pronounced. Not half as good as with the Rift/ASW but nearly playable now.