Suggestion engine managment TO RAZBAM

[ESAc_matador]

Hello to all, and specially to razbam team.

 

Again, I can't say how appreciate your choices when selecting aircrafts to model... what a good taste!!!

 

 

Well, we people, are talking about the engine management limits, and that stufff.. I won't say a word about it, I just know, this is early stages, and I dont know a bit about the subjet.

 

What I am suggesting is two little thing, that I am pretty sure, it should not be that difficult to implement.

 

We all know that in other sims the possibility to keep track of your engines, bateries, etc, from flight, to flight exists. And it is very inmersive. I am not asking for that... but a similar thing, or an alternative.

 

What if: at the end of your session, after you switch off the aircraft, you can ask for maintenance report with this two details.

 

Flight time (engine running time)

counts (engine wear).

 

We then can write it in an Excel table and keep a log of it.

 

The second:

Instead of getting a new aircraft everytime in any new mission..., we have a slide bar in the Mission Editor, where we can put the counts (wear) the aircraft has,. So... if you keep track of your flights, you know we're to place it. So you will be aware if your engine is in best conditions or not. You can always click in a possible random wear.

 

This will give a room for further and unseen simulation in DCS.

 

You can simulate situations like...

 

Year 2005, we have been 4 month of intensive flying over caucasus... now the offensive is coming, but our aircrafts are experiencing problems with lack of new engines... We need to keep flying at least x more weeks... no spare engines or aircrafts available....

 

I think, if in anyway you can export the info to a file, and then be able to put the aircraft in such conditions.... there will be someone who would do something serious about itt.

 

PS: as I was writing... you could do your own addon, payware... AV8 management kit, why not??. 10 USD.

 

 

Please, think, about it!

Edited December 8, 2017 by ESAc_matador

[comie1]

Or just manage your jet better... Use the ENG page to check full throttle readouts and see engine wear yourself.

[ESAc_matador]

Or just manage your jet better... Use the ENG page to check full throttle readouts and see engine wear yourself.

 

So what you mean is if you manage your jet "better" you could fly it until the eternity and beyond?

 

I know the ENG page has the life of the engine in counts... but. You always start from 1500 (it seems it does not work yet... or is it?)

 

So, ok, I can take the time flying, and the counts (if available). But then... how do you put the aircraft in such conditions in the next missions??

 

You need a slide, or something in the ME editor. I hope you get the point...

 

PS: that "just manage your jet better" is quite silly statemet. It might be caused because either you did not understood my point or I did not explain myself properly. I hope, now you do.

[comie1]

So what you mean is if you manage your jet "better" you could fly it until the eternity and beyond?

 

I know the ENG page has the life of the engine in counts... but. You always start from 1500 (it seems it does not work yet... or is it?)

 

So, ok, I can take the time flying, and the counts (if available). But then... how do you put the aircraft in such conditions in the next missions??

 

You need a slide, or something in the ME editor. I hope you get the point...

 

PS: that "just manage your jet better" is quite silly statemet. It might be caused because either you did not understood my point or I did not explain myself properly. I hope, now you do.

 

Ah ok I get you... Does any other aircraft have this feature in DCS?

[Eldur]

Or just manage your jet better... Use the ENG page to check full throttle readouts and see engine wear yourself.

 

That's not the point. As far as I get it, the idea is to have your personal aircraft - the same one again and again until it's destroyed. With all the wear added over it's lifetime and the consequences it brings.

Basically in flight sims today we have the problem that exceeding operational limits instantly damages our engines resulting in power loss or even killing them. Most prominent are the Il-2 series sims (exceeding those 1min 1.42ata limits for example). But that's not realistic. It's just adding the risk of damage and therefor reducing its lifetime. So if you push her over the limits, you won't notice it in this flight you're in now, and not even in the next one or two or maybe even some more... but eventually you might face some damages, oil pressure losses etc, whatever might happen. And not just the engines, the whole airplane should be affected (G limits anyone?). And here it would be great to have a maintenance report as a feedback. The whole thing would be quite complex though, and ED would have to do it as a general feature for all modules, but it would be absolutely great to have. One could even go a step further and introduce some minor performance variation, so one P-51D could be 5mph faster than another, since even if they're the same type they'll never be exactly the same plane in the same "fresh out of the factory with absolutely no production errors" condition.

[ESAc_matador]

Ah ok I get you... Does any other aircraft have this feature in DCS?

 

Not that I know... but. Since programming is a matter of triggers, and it seems (cpt smiley said so) the wear and underpower is coming from triggers activated for misuse of the engine.

 

IF, you could start your mission with the count you want... what I say could be possible. (OR NOT).

 

I am just suggesting.

[ESAc_matador]

That's not the point. As far as I get it, the idea is to have your personal aircraft - the same one again and again until it's destroyed. With all the wear added over it's lifetime and the consequences it brings.

Basically in flight sims today we have the problem that exceeding operational limits instantly damages our engines resulting in power loss or even killing them. Most prominent are the Il-2 series sims (exceeding those 1min 1.42ata limits for example). But that's not realistic. It's just adding the risk of damage and therefor reducing its lifetime. So if you push her over the limits, you won't notice it in this flight you're in now, and not even in the next one or two or maybe even some more... but eventually you might face some damages, oil pressure losses etc, whatever might happen. And not just the engines, the whole airplane should be affected (G limits anyone?). And here it would be great to have a maintenance report as a feedback. The whole thing would be quite complex though, and ED would have to do it as a general feature for all modules, but it would be absolutely great to have. One could even go a step further and introduce some minor performance variation, so one P-51D could be 5mph faster than another, since even if they're the same type they'll never be exactly the same plane in the same "fresh out of the factory with absolutely no production errors" condition.

 

That is the point... you could do with lots of things that could wear during a flight, but the most important, would be the engines, and then the G load... If we could get this data via scripting, or whatever. And you are able via mission editor (or scripting) to modify this data before the next fly, many people would love it.

 

I am not even talking about a full REP (a la x-plane)... alghthogh that would be awesome... but just this couple of things...

 

https://www.simcoders.com/reality-expansion-pack/overview

[Fri13]

No... This is not suppose to be scripts! This is a feature that needs to be in the DCS core in itself!

 

The multiplayer server hosters needs to change their attitude to the aircrafts. There is right now way too much air quake and maneuvers that no real pilot would do because various reason (G-loads limiting your capability turn head, spot things side of your field of vie etc, move hands in cockpit to operate functions other than HOTAS, structural limitations, not coming home a live etc) and all those makes the multiplayer for many players as joke. Where they just laugh when someone does some funny thing on taxiing or someone tries to be a hero and fight to the end when they really know they have no changes etc, only because they can just "respawn".

 

The DCS by its core needs to have a pilot roster logger. Be it then in the ED server, logged to the user account that every server can access!

 

Then make it so that everyone has a X amount of pilots they can create to ED account, like example 5 pilots. And that is their nickname and that is their history, rank, performance etc.

 

And then for hardcore pilots, once the pilot dies, the pilot is KIA. If the pilot is shot down but manages to eject, MIA until rescue helicopter picks the pilot back to base. If there is no real pilots to search and rescue the pilot, then there is some random time delay until that pilot automatically is either looked to be found back to own troops (can take in reality days or even weeks depending how deeply in enemy lines or how far from closest friendly troops it was on server) and there is always a random lucky number that the pilot gets captured or killed and they are indefinetly a MIA.

 

Then if the pilot does stupid things like eject on airfields or without any reason, wasting aircrafts. Gets damaged aircrafts because bad landings etc. The pilot flight status is on hold for X time until they get their flight status back.

 

Now consider that ED account could hold only a 5 virtual pilots. User would be free to delete and create them as they wish, but there would be a log of the roster acount how many times does the player delete and create new pilots. Like some might log in a 57 new virtual pilots, while some might just have their five.

 

The player can swap between the each virtual pilot on any server, but if every virtual pilot is MIA, then either stop flying in MP until someone is found, or then delete one virtual pilot and create a new one.

That would be more like a world ranking list for pilots in virtual combat, who can do better than others. Who can get most kills and still come back to home time after time. Who can complete more sorties with a same pilot?

Now, add that to the ED forum system to avatar or as ED account and let the ED run a ranking list for a virtual pilots (doesn't reveal the actual ED account name etc, just the virtual pilot. The virtual pilot owner can have a signature that shows it is their virtual pilot and no ones else) and that would bring respect among many virtual pilots in the virtual force for who are really good pilots, not by just kills, but taking care of their aircrafts and knowing how to operate them.

 

The system could log in hours in flight, sorties, flight performance etc. And you can even get a respect via that way, how well you can manage to fly your aircrafts.

 

As now we have the new DRM system that check the authorization everytime you update the DCS or you go to multiplayer and then every now and then when you are in online. The same thing could be used for this that it uploads the statics everytime you go to fly. So even only offline players could compete with online players!

 

But all this would optional to be uploaded. But it would more enforced to be used even in SP just like now there is the pilot roster that anyone can delete etc.

And ED could allow to create the virtual squadrons for specific countries (teams).

 

The multiple virtual pilot roster would allow any player to have a "Joke pilots" as well "ace pilot" but in both cases their asses would be in line to do well....

Edited December 8, 2017 by Fri13

[ESAc_matador]

Well, that would be awesome. Some severs has "similar" things scripted (Blueflag for instance).

 

But yes, that woulr be grat.

 

But back on topic... if only we could define the engine situation and structural situation would be great advance. ;)

[Fri13]

Well, that would be awesome. Some severs has "similar" things scripted (Blueflag for instance).

 

But yes, that woulr be grat.

 

But back on topic... if only we could define the engine situation and structural situation would be great advance. ;)

 

Sorry, forgot to add to my above post that the virtual pilot would get a assigned aircraft as well on each server.

So crash that aircraft and you need to acquire a new one ;)

 

So the reason to have the aircraft statics is important as many aircraft is shared between pilots so you know who is abusing the aircraft when you are not there ;)

 

This similar idea came to me as well yesterday when I was doing a virtual aircraft inspection :D

As I had a 10x7m gaming area (Oculus Rift with three sensors, no problems btw when each was on own corner) and it was fun to raise up from the chair (front part of the area) and take off HMD for a moment to reset the view height to ceiling level, and then walk around the aircraft admiring the details.... So wish it could be possible with other means.

That was the "mind blowing" thing really... Then get back to the cockpit and check the engine history etc.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Fri13

[pii]

Hello to all, and specially to razbam team.

 

Again, I can't say how appreciate your choices when selecting aircrafts to model... what a good taste!!!

 

 

Well, we people, are talking about the engine management limits, and that stufff.. I won't say a word about it, I just know, this is early stages, and I dont know a bit about the subjet.

 

What I am suggesting is two little thing, that I am pretty sure, it should not be that difficult to implement.

 

We all know that in other sims the possibility to keep track of your engines, bateries, etc, from flight, to flight exists. And it is very inmersive. I am not asking for that... but a similar thing, or an alternative.

 

What if: at the end of your session, after you switch off the aircraft, you can ask for maintenance report with this two details.

 

Flight time (engine running time)

counts (engine wear).

 

We then can write it in an Excel table and keep a log of it.

 

The second:

Instead of getting a new aircraft everytime in any new mission..., we have a slide bar in the Mission Editor, where we can put the counts (wear) the aircraft has,. So... if you keep track of your flights, you know we're to place it. So you will be aware if your engine is in best conditions or not. You can always click in a possible random wear.

 

This will give a room for further and unseen simulation in DCS.

 

You can simulate situations like...

 

Year 2005, we have been 4 month of intensive flying over caucasus... now the offensive is coming, but our aircrafts are experiencing problems with lack of new engines... We need to keep flying at least x more weeks... no spare engines or aircrafts available....

 

I think, if in anyway you can export the info to a file, and then be able to put the aircraft in such conditions.... there will be someone who would do something serious about itt.

 

PS: as I was writing... you could do your own addon, payware... AV8 management kit, why not??. 10 USD.

 

 

Please, think, about it!

 

I could see this if we had a dynamic campaign, but we don't ..sooooo:pilotfly::joystick:

[Mars Exulte]

None of that stuff you just suggested would atually change player behavior. Some people care, most do not, what happens to their virtual plane. Preventing people from playing is suicide in a commercial product, besides being stupid, and merely 'logging' miscellaneous details is irrelevant in a multiplayer environment. Protip: this isn't real, and no amount of stat tracking will change that.

 

As for tracking wear and tear on an aircraft longterm, it's not something I oppose, but it's also pointless. Some things are simply outside the scope of a mere video game. You can simulate a worn out plane already by increasing odds of a system failure. Actually tracking lifespan of an aircraft is of little value as far as 'simulating' things. Here's why

 

#1 Lots of the 'strategic concerns' are outside scope of the game, especially in a multiplayer environment. For example, many times more DCS Harriers have been sold than were ever built of ALL versions in real life. We're already glossing over these sort of 'strategic' concerns.

 

#2 Very few conflicts are ever long enough for this to matter. Excepting WWII, and probably Vietnam, there haven't been many conflicts long enough for this to come up unless an aircraft was already due for maintenance. Normally, you would be drummed out of the military or transferred way before you logged enough hours to 'wear out' a plane.

 

#3 People die WAY too frequently ingame for this to ever become a concern, either. You'll crash your plane or get shot down before you log the thousands of hours required to 'wear it out', guaranteed. And if you're NOT going to reset it everytime you crash or get shot down, then it's even MORE pointless.

 

 

 

 

Flight simulators, like first person shooters and many other things, are by nature 'tactically oriented', that is, the conducting of individual battles. This request is related to strategic concerns that aren't really the pilot's problem. The ground crew is more relevant about this stuff way more than the pilot is. You're not playing a crew chief or a base commander, these sort of things are really outside our purview.

Edited December 9, 2017 by zhukov032186

[ESAc_matador]

Today, I discovered that you have in the UH a slide bar to put the Engine Resource....

 

When the Counts works (I think it is not working yet in the MFD), we could have a slide counts similar to the UH, and do what i was purposing.

 

Is it possible?