Does chaff work?

[NeMoGas]

I've been flying the Harrier for a few weeks now, mostly in multiplayer and cannot seem to spoof radar missiles. I know I'm dropping chaff to because I hear the poof sound and see the chaff counter on the RWR page count down. Has anyone had any luck spoofing radar missiles with chaff? I know its early access so maybe its just not implemented yet.

[Tello]

Did you try and run a mission in Tacview ? I see no difference if I fly other modules compared to the Harrier.

 

uh so many factors to consider. Best to run a mission and have a look in the tacview.

http://www.tacview.net/

[NeMoGas]

Thanks for the reply Tello. I have never used Tacview before, I'll check it out.

[Eldur]

I have yet to see chaff work at all in DCS...

 

Flares are about 20% cooler

[NeMoGas]

I have really good luck with flares in the A10C. The Harrier on the other hand not so much.

[GGTharos]

Chaff works just fine, but it has to be applied correctly. Of all you do is just drop chaff (or drop chaff and perform 'violent random maneuvers') you definitely won't get much benefit from it. Most effective way to apply chaff is to pull the offending radar on the 3-9 line and if possible force it to look down (ie be at a lower altitude)

[NeMoGas]

Yeah I always try to notch the missile or radar. I get as low as I can and try to put the RWR signal at the 3 or 9 like you said and pop chaff. So far no luck as I watch the missile track me without deviation. As I said though I play mostly online so maybe its an MP lag issue.

[Eldur]

Most effective way to apply chaff is to pull the offending radar on the 3-9 line and if possible force it to look down (ie be at a lower altitude)

 

I do that since the key is to kill the missile's energy, keep it on 3-9, be fast and always change the direction relative to it so it constantly has to correct it's course by a lot. Works as well without chaff as it does with spamming them out. Of course it seems like they do something, but as soon as you stop using it, doing everything else the same and seeing it still being effective, you start thinking about it. In case of flares on the other hoof, there's a very difference, but it needs a decent amount of them. Maybe the effect ist just so little that it seems like they don't do anything

[GGTharos]

Don't count on 'killing missile energy' - one of these days missiles will be equipped with a filter that will end the barrel rolling/snaking/whatever 'lots of direction change' silliness.

 

You put them on the 3-9 line to make your last-ditch changes work best (out-of-plane maneuver), as well as enhance the usefulness of chaff, and potentially even drop into the notch. Chaff is quite effective in the beam, except if you're using it against 120C's which go 'lol, chaff' at you so you'll really want to pair it with a last ditch effort.

[JackHammer89]

Has anyone got a link, or can explain (preferably with pictures) how to use chaff properly/effectively.

 

I don't entirely understand what notching is either...

[QuiGon]

I don't entirely understand what notching is either...

 

Take a look at this well made tutorial by Jabbers:

 

[fjacobsen]

I can effectivly spoof SA-6's by notching and release Chaff.

[Eldur]

Some good hints here. Tried notching against SA-11 after watching that video which really helps understanding the physics and actually I defeated 14 missiles with 60 chaff, the next one got me since I was out of CM and it already was too close for me to dive it against the ground. Looks like I was a bit stuck in my own techniques to avoid getting hit to see this really works - and since I'm more the AG one, I never really paid too much attention to BVR combat techniques

[Gearbox]

Don't count on 'killing missile energy' - one of these days missiles will be equipped with a filter that will end the barrel rolling/snaking/whatever 'lots of direction change' silliness.

 

 

Not sure how that would work... the reason those maneuvers work is that the missile has to pull lead pursuit to be able to reasonably get to the target. If the missile is running pure pursuit or lag pursuit it would expend less energy on corrections, but the trade off is using much more energy on the way to the target and taking way longer to get there.

 

I guess you can always add more energy to the missile design... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)

[GGTharos]

Same way it works in RL - better guidance algorithms including clamping max g or slowing down guidance constants until terminal (1nm from target).

 

Not sure how that would work... the reason those maneuvers work is that the missile has to pull lead pursuit to be able to reasonably get to the target. If the missile is running pure pursuit or lag pursuit it would expend less energy on corrections, but the trade off is using much more energy on the way to the target and taking way longer to get there.

 

I guess you can always add more energy to the missile design... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)

[Gearbox]

Same way it works in RL - better guidance algorithms including clamping max g or slowing down guidance constants until terminal (1nm from target).

 

Interesting, I didn't know that real ones did such things.

[NeMoGas]

I have no problem defeating SA11, SA15 or SA6. Below a certain altitude they will no longer track even without the use of chaff. However altitude alone seems to have no effect on radar missiles fired from AC in the sim. You must fly perpendicular to the radar emitter in this case and also be below the emitting radar to be lost in the ground clutter.

 

Flying last night I did have some success notching missiles but it was very hit or miss. Most missed by just a few feet as they flew over my canopy.

Edited January 10, 2018 by NeMoGas

[GafferDCS]

I have no problem defeating SA11, SA15 or SA6. Below a certain altitude they will no longer track even without the use of chaff. However altitude alone seems to have no effect on radar missiles fired from AC in the sim. You must fly perpendicular to the radar emitter in this case and also be below the emitting radar to be lost in the ground clutter.

 

Flying last night I did have some success notching missiles but it was very hit or miss. Most missed by just a few feet as they flew over my canopy.

 

Low altitude works for SAM's as the radar and missile are coming from the ground. Most of them are semi-active and if you can break the lock from the ground radar they go ballistic. Even in relatively flat areas you can usually find enough terrain to put something between yourself and the ground radar.

 

Missiles (active and semi-active) fired from aircraft - you have to hide from a radar that is way up in the sky. Much more difficult to do.

[JackHammer89]

Take a look at this well made tutorial by Jabbers:

 

 

Thank you,

 

I will take a look