Need Help beating Eagle

[Aeroscout]

Ok, this is lame I know. But i just cant find a sure fire stratagy for beating the F-15 with the Su-27! :cry: Ive looked at ironhand's tutorials, but that stratagy does not seem to work. instead, i use this variation:

 

First, I fly to an altitude just below the F-15.

 

When i've burned thru the Jaming, i fire FIRST. (I fire at that is the first or second tick mark inside max range.) when he fires, i dive to about 500 feet.

 

I launch a second misslie anout 10 seconds after I launch my first. (the 15 sec in Ironhand's toutorials doesn't seem to work for me.)

 

when his misslile is 3-4 bars from the last bar on the signal strength indicator on the TWD, i start despencing chaff and flare.

 

at the last bar, i put the plane in AB, pull up, and barrel roll.

 

The missile usually hits me. and neither of my other missiles hit him.

 

What am i doing wrong. is there something I'm missing?

 

NOTE: this is an Average advarsary, so nothing too complex.

 

Any advise? I would really appriciate it. :helpsmilie:

 

Thanks.

[EricJ]

One good thing is to use the R-27ER (If I remember correctly that's what he used in his tutorial), or your long stick. Launch it at him, and follow the tutorial. More than likely however, he's going to not get hit by it, which is okay. After firing, go higher by F-Poling. It puts you at a higher position and makes his missiles shorter ranged, while the incoming missile puts him at a disadvantage, because he has to react. So while you're F-Poling, watch the data in the HUD. If it starts to go crazy, that's him jinking. If the data starts to stop going crazy, he's coming for you. Pop him with an R-27ER and that might sweeten the deal. However, you're more than likely going to at least take an AIM-120/7 shot. I always preferred diving, combined with heavy use of chaff. Most of the time it works, but you have to consider keeping him locked up until you kill him.

 

I think another main problem is that you're not using your missiles right. The Su-27 by default has SARH, or missiles that require you to maintain a lock on the target in order for them to kill. You can also carry IR missiles, but usually the best ones are your R-27Rs (I would say -ER, but now it's just useless) or even R-77s if you add them. The key thing is to keep the Eagle busy not firing, while you are firing, which may involve a waste of missiles, but the good thing is that you won't have to worry about the taxpayers griping about waste :D

[Aeroscout]

Ok, i usualy try to only use 2-3 missiles per Eagle. My main problem is when I f-poll, i lose radar lock. (and then I'm screwed.) sometimes, I Dont recieve launch Authorization, even though he's pointed right at me! that's a pain in the neck!

 

and did you meen, dispense Chaff durring F-poll? i like to use them alittle before the missile would hit me. other wise... never mind, i see your point now...

 

I dont use the R-77. it's cheating. (though it is a nice mod.) and i do use the R-27ER.

 

Maybe I just have to perfect my stratagy.

 

Thanks.

[Poopskadoop]

This is how I do it:

 

First missile fired at 20km out. The Eagle usually fires at 18km, so I have an advantage of a few seconds. If he fires at the same time, I don't worry about it.

 

As soon as I fire, I bank to one side, usually the direction into which the eagle itself is heading. For the purpose of this example, let's say I banked to the right. I fly level and calmly. I generally don't need to use chaff, but it doesn't hurt. I fire another missile sometime within this time range.

 

As soon as the the missile warning system indicates that the hostile missile is at the second to last bar, I pull upwards and in towards the direction of the eagle so that I don't lose lock. Sort of a sudden pull on the stick and a sudden bank into the eagle. So, in relation to my example, I would pull up and then bank left suddenly. This causes the missile to miss almost 100% of the time.

 

Now, by this time, your second missile should have hit or will hit momentarily. If it doesn't, then the job becomes more complicated. Right now I should be pointing towards the eagle as a result of my maneuver. Depending on the range, I fire either another ER or an ET. ET is best because it is fire and forget, which is needed at this point. Usually the eagle launches another AIM-120 as soon as you finish pointing your nose to him, so you've got to quickly launch your missile and perform the same maneuver I used earlier. It's much more difficult this time because the AIM-120 is traveling much faster. Again, the same method is used. I pull up violently as soon as the indicator reaches the second to last light. Sometimes you may need to it slightly earlier as a result of the faster missile. If performed correctly, the eagle should be dead and you should have dodged his missile. If the third missile doesn't get him, quickly put yourself into a position to fire a 73. Pop some flares because it is likely that he is about to use his AIM-9.

 

In all honesty, I usually get him with the first or second missile. I have to if I am outnumbered 2 to 1. That's a completely different situation that I am still trying to master.

[Aeroscout]

Ok, thanks. it helps if i stay at or below the bandits level. if i'm too high, i lose radar lock. (why is that and is it realistic?) i usualy drop 1000 feet or more when he launches. launch another missile anen wait till the warning is on the last bar to preform that viloent menover with some chaff. if the missile mises me, I wait to see if the my missile hits. if it does not, i wait till he points at me again and i launch again. I preform another evasin menover if he should fire a second.

 

I have to if I am outnumbered 2 to 1. That's a completely different situation that I am still trying to master.

 

lol. I dont want to even think about what would happen to me if I went against 2 eagles at once. Some later time... but not right now.

[Pilotasso]

Beating the F-15?

 

Its easy. Turn ECM on and off with the same timing it takes for the F-15 to recover from STT back to TWS and you will become nearly INVISIBLE (pick a mig-29 and he wont be able to see you at all). This also will keep him to from getting a single shot off, because only the radar missiles on the eagle have range to hit anything and the sidwinder still has to be cued by radar but will not hit much of anything unless your dead ahead 3 miles at your target.

 

Then, while your oponent is trying to figure out where your coming from, aim your Borsesight mode circle center at him and maddog an R-27ET at 30Km range, or when your Beriosa system is lighted up to the last 2 LED's. When your out of ET's do that same with R-77's. This will be less efficient because then it gives about out 1s of warning on his TEWS when missile goes active at last leg of 10 miles. After each shot run away, when you see black smoke turn back to the fight and repeat the bove steps untill your out of missiles...or oponents.

 

This way you pump your probability of kill with steroids beyond your own skills and blow the crap out of everybody else who took years to learn doing real world tactics but to make them feel like complete idiots before you.

 

Trust me, it works... ;)

 

:D

 

P.S. that Port whine bottle tasted mighty good. Ill bring another beside me. :D

:drunk:

[Poopskadoop]

Ok, thanks. it helps if i stay at or below the bandits level. if i'm too high, i lose radar lock. (why is that and is it realistic?) i usualy drop 1000 feet or more when he launches. launch another missile anen wait till the warning is on the last bar to preform that viloent menover with some chaff. if the missile mises me, I wait to see if the my missile hits. if it does not, i wait till he points at me again and i launch again. I preform another evasin menover if he should fire a second.

 

 

 

lol. I dont want to even think about what would happen to me if I went against 2 eagles at once. Some later time... but not right now.

 

The reason you lose lock when the enemy is below you is because he beams your missile. That is, he flies perfectly perpendicular to your radar and, since the Doppler effect shows he is no longer moving at any speed, he will become lost in the ground clutter. The radar cannot be fooled in a look up situation, but it can easily be fooled in a look down situation. Yes this is realistic, but the perfection with which he notches himself in this invisible zone is not.

[Cosmonaut]

Exactly like Poopskadoop, has explained.

 

I'll add a few things; first don't see the evasion as a violent maneuver, substitute the word violent for controlled because if you yank and bank too hard you'll loose too much air speed which could give you problems depending on how close you're to merging. Also keep and eye on your HUD, HDD and RWR all at the same time while still trying to get a visual on the bandit. On the HUD you must monitor the Radar symbol after you've fired an SARH missile, once the RADAR symbol has gone for more than a few seconds you can bet your missile has stopped tracking and wont reacquire the target because its out side of its FOV. I have a feeling its this that has you on the back foot because once you loose lock your enemy will know that he has defeated your missile and you can expect him to turn back into you and your RWR will start to warn you of yet another missile coming your way. The HDD will tell you his direction of flight which will indicate when you're most likely to loose lock so you can turn to an angle that will make it difficult for him to notch your radar. Lastly practice your BVR routine until it becomes almost like a reflex.

[159th_Dorsk81]

Beating the F-15?

 

Pilotasso wrote:

 

"Its easy. Turn ECM on and off with the same timing it takes for the F-15 to recover from STT back to TWS and you will become nearly INVISIBLE (pick a mig-29 and he wont be able to see you at all). This also will keep him to from getting a single shot off, because only the radar missiles on the eagle have range to hit anything and the sidwinder still has to be cued by radar but will not hit much of anything unless your dead ahead 3 miles at your target."

 

I once used this tactic on a server in HL. It caused such a stir. It was like being accused of cheating or something. I never used it again on HL and when it was used against me by 44th_Eagle I must confess I was a little miffed about it. Can someone please verify that this is a genuine tactic and not a fault within the game. Would such use of ECM in a real world situation work?

[Pilotasso]

It is no longer considered a cheat, because many veterans are now using it.

But you will earn no friends online that for sure. I have a macro to do this but I still refrain from using it most of the times. I still preffer conventional tactics even though I keep loosing to blinkers-maddogers. Every time I ask them not to do it, it feels like asking for charity. Its pointless.

 

I had a bit of alcohool in my blood when I wrote that post, :D but it was my genuine desire that this gets fixed. Dont think it deserves much more comments, because its a known and widely disccussed issue. IF it remanins in BS is because people dont mind about it much.

[Pilotasso]

Relax, as I said it, I use it rarely, usualy when the enviroment is already extremely hostile on that front. The server would become half empty by then anyway.

 

Also if you ca find a video by the name of "F-pole" made by Loc, I higher recommend watching it.

 

Im educated on that front. But you should have figured out by now that the rules change if you cant see where and what the enemy is doing.

 

In normal circuntances with HOJ you will still see aspect change and altitude change as well as estimete ECM strength, and thus range. Whitout this your efectively blind. you know they are there somewhere but you cant do much of anything, except take a wild guess and throw your missiles away.

[TucksonSonny]

Ok, this is lame I know. But i just cant find a sure fire stratagy for beating the F-15 with the Su-27! :cry: Ive looked at ironhand's tutorials, but that stratagy does not seem to work. instead, i use this variation:

 

First, I fly to an altitude just below the F-15.

 

When i've burned thru the Jaming, i fire FIRST. (I fire at that is the first or second tick mark inside max range.) when he fires, i dive to about 500 feet.

 

I launch a second misslie anout 10 seconds after I launch my first. (the 15 sec in Ironhand's toutorials doesn't seem to work for me.)

 

when his misslile is 3-4 bars from the last bar on the signal strength indicator on the TWD, i start despencing chaff and flare.

 

at the last bar, i put the plane in AB, pull up, and barrel roll.

 

The missile usually hits me. and neither of my other missiles hit him.

 

What am i doing wrong. is there something I'm missing?

 

NOTE: this is an Average advarsary, so nothing too complex.

 

Any advise? I would really appriciate it. :helpsmilie:

 

Thanks.

 

Give us your mission-file so we can help you out with giving you a rec-file (by prefer ace and expert AI).

 

A recorded file is very small and explains better than all the bragging by people that even don’t fly the Su-27 :D

[Frostie]

Pilotasso, some servers are booting people for using the on/off trick.

 

So if you use that just be aware that you could get booted and maybe banned. I forgot which server I saw one of it's members say that in. But they did say they will boot people that do that.

I think it may have been the TA or TG or w/e they're called server , apparently on/off ECM is more of a realistic model of ECM.

Kill AI F-15s using HOJ. Any real chap with sense would eliminate that shot.

[Anytime]

Got a link to the video?

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=8767&highlight=movie points to a dead thread.

 

Also in lockon is there a way to defeat a bandit trying to beam you?

 

Pilotasso, some servers are booting people for using the on/off trick.

 

So if you use that just be aware that you could get booted and maybe banned. I forgot which server I saw one of it's members say that in. But they did say they will boot people that do that.

 

Also if you ca find a video by the name of "F-pole" made by Loc, I higher recommend watching it.

 

And the burn thru range being 13km is BS, that is something ED added in the game to "balance it out":music_whistling: which sucks cause we all know that the 15's radar is better then the 27's.:dunno:

[Pilotasso]

I think it may have been the TA or TG or w/e they're called server , apparently on/off ECM is more of a realistic model of ECM.

Kill AI F-15s using HOJ. Any real chap with sense would eliminate that shot.

 

Yes, real ECM flashes but real radars will also still HOJ because they are prepared to do so by design. In LOMAC you get the flashing not by design but by user imput (i.e. its like almost double flashing) but there are no built in implemented radar functions to counter it, and ECM is 100% efective. Therefore EW is only represented by 100% ECM and no ECCM, and anyone who does flashing manualy is NOT simulating real life Jamming. Its just an excuse, and it is irrelevant to argue thats realistic if one thing is simulated but the counter is not, so instead of making it more realistic, your actualy breaking the SIM.

[GGTharos]

People will use what's given to them. It's no different than the 'fly at 10m' tactic.

[Pilotasso]

Unlike the flashing the 10m tactic is a very weak tactic, you can be shot by IR missiles, or become in a very bad position if you engage defensive for some reason and break that altitude. These low fliers are shot down more often than not, and maybe for this reason I dont see much of it online anymore.

 

Besides 1 flaw is a poor excuse for another flaw.

[GGTharos]

Unlike the flashing the 10m tactic is a very weak tactic, you can be shot by IR missiles, or become in a very bad position if you engage defensive for some reason and break that altitude. These low fliers are shot down more often than not, and maybe for this reason I dont see much of it online anymore.

 

Besides 1 flaw is a poor excuse for another flaw.

 

... I don't know, The guy flying at 10m occasionally popping up to lob 77's/27ER/T's at you has never been particularely weak.

 

Quit whining about it ;)

It'll get dealt with in the fighter project I imagine - but I'll see if I can get something going for BS. Most likely not.

[Pilotasso]

... I don't know, The guy flying at 10m occasionally popping up to lob 77's/27ER/T's at you has never been particularely weak.

 

 

Its easy, put some angle off and altitude displacement. Watch his altitude change as he disengages altitude hold (H) as he turns to you, then let the missiles fly. Yours will have more range than his, and you have a bigger window to extend, his will be much smaller.

 

If you high enough you can even send him an ET roughly at the same time he gets LA for a radar missile on you.

[GGTharos]

If you high enough you can even send him an ET roughly at the same time he gets LA for a radar missile on you.

 

No, I can't send him an ET. Somehow they can't fit on my F-15 ;)

[Frostie]

The idea of using Jammers is to avoid getting hit if pilotA turns his off to represent real jammers pilotB needs to reaquire to represent real Radar.:D

In reality how many Flankers ,F15's and ubber Migs have or are likely to be shot down over 20kliks away? zero Pilots plenty fools.

[Cosmonaut]

Trying to get other players online not to use exploits, like ECM fibrillation, or flying an atoms width off the deck is pretty much impossible and its the same across all online games. I remember once seeing a guy in Americas Army jump off a cliff, land on the tip of a tree where he went prone, he then extended the bipod for his weapon and started sniping.. LOL people will do anything to win.

 

The only way around it is to have a more mission based online experience where one side can actually win, similar to IL2. That way if someone wants to spam their 120's/ ET's or fly low, well just let them because while they are pratting around wasting their supplies or formation flying with the weeds, the other team trying to achieve the OBJ will win.

[Poopskadoop]

What I'd really love to see is some more advanced commands for my wingmen. As it is now, every time I try to coordinate an attack from different sides, they scatter in different directions and slow down severely. Why can't they stay at my speed? I should be able to tell them at what range to fire, where to fly, and at what speed to fly. This would encourage the use of real life tactics in single player.

[Aeroscout]

Man! that would be nice!

 

Maybe you could slow down for them. that's what i try to do.

[Poopskadoop]

Man! that would be nice!

 

Maybe you could slow down for them. that's what i try to do.

 

That's annoying, and it sets me up to for a full frontal french kiss with an AMRAAM. Speed is important.