Mr_sukebe Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Was doing some more testing today, following the Friday hotfix. I was trying to get a handle on why I'm getting an easy 45fps most of the time when fairly static, but have been suffering from stutters when looking around quickly. My GPU wasn't maxed out, and neither was my GPU VRAM. Plenty of main system RAM still available. Turns out that whilst fairly stationary, my CPU "typical" usage in my test was running around 65%. However, when I started looking around it increased dramatically, the point that it was peaking at 100%, and clearly causing the stutters. That suggests to me: - DCS 2.5 is now offloading a whole bunch of video calculations to my CPU now that it's using more cores (in general a very good thing, as most of us had CPU bandwidth to play with back in 2.0) - For me, I need some more horsepower than my ancient Sandy bridge. As part of another test, I've upped my clock speed to 4Ghz. From experience, it'll run at upto 4.2Ghz in a stable manner, but not higher - That something like an 6 core Kaby Lake or 8 core Ryzen is going to have to be on the shopping list once funds permit Just done some more testing. - Increasing my CPU clock speed to 4Ghz cleared my CPU being maxed out, but still resulted in smearing in places and dropped frames - Disabling MSAA had it's usual reduction in system requirements, typically dropping them by around 20% - Tried disabling/enabling Process Lasso. Enabling it with a Priority Class = High. seems to help a little - Played with ASW mode. If anything, I got less smearing with it disabled. So I've left that off, despite the fact that my frame rate seems to sit almost all of the time at 45hz - I found the "performance" measurements from the Oculus Tray tool quite interesting. That's suggesting that I have a system shortfall (fairly obvious). What I found more interesting was that it quantified it, allowing me to fiddle with a few things to see their effects. Reducing grass/clutter to zero had much more effect than I was expecting - Played with the Pixel Density. Yep, definitely looks better at 1.2, but on my system has too much of a performance impact. Did try 1.1, but it didn't seem to improve visuals very much over 1.0 From all of the above, currently running with: - MSAA off - ASW off - PD = 1.0 - Grass/Clutter = 0 - Trees @ 50% For me, that results in a "good" result. Not perfect as there's no AA, PD = 1 and there's still a little tearing/smearing. With that lot, when I check system usage stats in MSI Afterburner, on Cauc, flying my Harrier in single player, I'm using around 70% GPU, 7GB VRAM, 10GB system RAM, CPU cores (all of them), around 65%. That does beg the question, if nothing is being maxed out, then why can't DCS maintain an utterly smear free view? Is it a metric that we don't have, e.g. data being moved from say system ram to VRAM? Edited February 10, 2018 by Mr_sukebe 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
Speedywrx Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201530 i7-7700k OC'd to 5.0 GHz, ASUS 1080ti OC, 32 GB 3200 MHz G.Skill, Samsung 960 pro M.2, Thrustmaster Warthog, Saitek pedals, Valve Index HMD
StrongHarm Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 Mr_sukebe, I feel your pain. Your i5 CPU is most likely your bottlekneck since your 1080 has a good GPU. But if the root of your problem is something other than your CPU, I can suggest the following. NOTE: I would try each of these suggestions one at a time so you can gauge which one helped you the most. Replying with your findings might help another vPilot. I noticed that you have 24g of RAM. Do some research on your system/MB and make sure it's rated for uneven increments of 8. Having unequal RAM sticks installed causes some(*most) systems to have really strange memory allocation issues. You'll have to purchase a new stick or simply remove the odd one (i.e. if you have 2 16g and 1 8g, remove the 8 ). Make sure your BIOS is updated to the latest version. I know this sounds trivial, but I assure you that it can cause some seriously weird issues if you're on an old BIOS version while using newer drivers for components that are plugged into your MB. Perform a clean install of the nVidia drivers. When you're doing the install you'll see a checkmark at the bottom of the screen for 'Clean Install'. Be aware, this will delete any 3d profiles you have set in the nVidia control panel, but it also refreshes all DLLs and gets rid of files from previous driver versions. Make sure that your Rift Sensor is connected to a USB 3.0 connection rather than a 2.0. This can cause 'smearing'. Reinstall the Rift Drivers. If you're using Windows 10, make sure you turn off Game Mode in the OS settings. Download and install Razer Cortex. This app has a database of known 'unneeded tasks and services' that may be running on your system that could interfere with game performance. When you left click on the tray icon and engage 'boost' it automatically ends task and stops services that aren't required, freeing resources for games. After you're done flying, simply left click on the tray icon and select 'Restore Now' and it will restart all the tasks and services it stopped. This is a safe application that has never stopped a service that I actually needed, and has never caused me any issues. It frees up system resources. I recommend this because you may have something running in the background that is causing your issue, but why search for a needle in a haystack when you can burn the haystack down. If you have 'Set Affinity' to specific CPU cores, remove that and choose all cores. If you don't know what this is, don't worry about it because you probably didn't mess with it. Delete the files from "..\Saved Games\DCS\FXO and .\metashaders" Bring Preload Radius all the way to low. Test in 10% increments until you receive desired performance If you upgraded stable DCS to beta, do an uninstall. Then reinstall from the full install distribution. I've been flying DCS for a very long time, so my install had a bunch of junk files from before they started using the DCSupdater. DCS ran much smoother after I performed a clean full install of 2.5. Read this post for additional info and 2.5 video test data https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201647 It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
DowntownSIX Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 FYI - I've been troubleshooting VR stutter too and one of the contributors was MSI Afterburner polling my GPU/CPU for stats, so turn that off. Devils Canyon i7 4790K @ 4.9GHz |16gb DDR3 | MSI GeForce GTX 1080Ti | Samsung 860 EVO Thrustmaster Warthog | Virpil WarBRD | Virpil TM-50CM2 Grip | VKB-Sim T-Rudder Mk.IV | Acer X34A (21:9) | Oculus Rift S A-10C | AJS-37 | AV-8B | C-101 | F/A-18C | F-14A/B | F-5E | KA-50 | L-39 | M-2000C | SA342 | Spitfire LF Mk IX | UH-1H
Mr_sukebe Posted February 11, 2018 Author Posted February 11, 2018 Mr_sukebe, I feel your pain. Your i5 CPU is most likely your bottlekneck since your 1080 has a good GPU. But if the root of your problem is something other than your CPU, I can suggest the following. NOTE: I would try each of these suggestions one at a time so you can gauge which one helped you the most. Replying with your findings might help another vPilot. I noticed that you have 24g of RAM. Do some research on your system/MB and make sure it's rated for uneven increments of 8. Having unequal RAM sticks installed causes some(*most) systems to have really strange memory allocation issues. You'll have to purchase a new stick or simply remove the odd one (i.e. if you have 2 16g and 1 8g, remove the 8 ). Make sure your BIOS is updated to the latest version. I know this sounds trivial, but I assure you that it can cause some seriously weird issues if you're on an old BIOS version while using newer drivers for components that are plugged into your MB. Perform a clean install of the nVidia drivers. When you're doing the install you'll see a checkmark at the bottom of the screen for 'Clean Install'. Be aware, this will delete any 3d profiles you have set in the nVidia control panel, but it also refreshes all DLLs and gets rid of files from previous driver versions. Make sure that your Rift Sensor is connected to a USB 3.0 connection rather than a 2.0. This can cause 'smearing'. Reinstall the Rift Drivers. If you're using Windows 10, make sure you turn off Game Mode in the OS settings. Download and install Razer Cortex. This app has a database of known 'unneeded tasks and services' that may be running on your system that could interfere with game performance. When you left click on the tray icon and engage 'boost' it automatically ends task and stops services that aren't required, freeing resources for games. After you're done flying, simply left click on the tray icon and select 'Restore Now' and it will restart all the tasks and services it stopped. This is a safe application that has never stopped a service that I actually needed, and has never caused me any issues. It frees up system resources. I recommend this because you may have something running in the background that is causing your issue, but why search for a needle in a haystack when you can burn the haystack down. If you have 'Set Affinity' to specific CPU cores, remove that and choose all cores. If you don't know what this is, don't worry about it because you probably didn't mess with it. Delete the files from "..\Saved Games\DCS\FXO and .\metashaders" Bring Preload Radius all the way to low. Test in 10% increments until you receive desired performance If you upgraded stable DCS to beta, do an uninstall. Then reinstall from the full install distribution. I've been flying DCS for a very long time, so my install had a bunch of junk files from before they started using the DCSupdater. DCS ran much smoother after I performed a clean full install of 2.5. Read this post for additional info and 2.5 video test data https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201647 Awesome, some ideas in there that I'd not previously tried. In particular: - Disabling game bar. I was sure that I'd previously done this, yet on checking, it's back again... - Removing the FXO folder. I'd done the metashaders, was unaware about the FXO Question about the update/fresh install. I've always had all of my mods within the Users/Saved Games/ folder. So in theory should be clean. Would you still recommend a fresh? Very conscious that I'll be looking at probably 100GB to download. Again, my thanks. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
Buckeye Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 FYI - I've been troubleshooting VR stutter too and one of the contributors was MSI Afterburner polling my GPU/CPU for stats, so turn that off. Which option is this, please? Thank you! Rig: SimLab P1X Chassis | Tianhang Base PRO + Tianhang F-16 Grip w/ OTTO Buttons | Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + OTTO switches and buttons | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper Tactile: G-Belt | 2x BK LFE + 1x BK Concert | 2x TST-429 | 1x BST-300EX | 2x BST-1 | 6x 40W Exciters | 2x NX3000D | 2x EPQ304 PC/VR: Somnium VR1 Visionary | 4090 | 12700K
Mr_sukebe Posted February 11, 2018 Author Posted February 11, 2018 Which option is this, please? Thank you! I went into Afterburner/Settings/Monitoring and changed the polling time from 1000 ms (every second) to 60k, i.e. every minute. Linked to the FXO folder deletion, that's resulted in a massive reduction in smearing. Awesome. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
StrongHarm Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 Mr_sukebe, the mod files aren't the target when uninstalling the upgrade to install the full. It's files within .\program files. I've read a lot of posts where people have said it made a big difference in 2.5 for them so I tried it out and it had a clear visible effect for me too. Where Saved Games is concerned, I just copied my Missions, Input, and Screenshots folders and changed the name of the root folder so it would create all new files/folders. I then pasted Missions, Input, and Screenshots back in after it was done. I don't use any mods though.. I'm kind of a DCS purist. I would recommend not using hardware monitoring tools at all while flying DCS, unless you're specifically doing testing. Schrödinger's cat gets fragged by the high CPU requirements of DCS. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
Mr_sukebe Posted February 11, 2018 Author Posted February 11, 2018 SH> My thanks, looks like I'll be giving that a go then. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
louisv Posted February 13, 2018 Posted February 13, 2018 Go back to the directory where fxo and metashaders were...and here they are again... These files are generated on first startup to speedup the next startups...they are always there. MSI Z170A Titanium Edition mobo + 6700K CPU 32 GB G.Skill TridentZ memory 3200 MHz Sandisk Extreme Pro 256 GB SSD Samsung 950 Pro 512 GB M.2 SSD (3 GB/s) for DCS and +. HP ZR24W Monitor, EVGA GTX 1080ti FE Thrustmaster Warthog, MFG CrossWind rudder... and Oculus Rift CV1.
Mr_sukebe Posted February 13, 2018 Author Posted February 13, 2018 Go back to the directory where fxo and metashaders were...and here they are again... These files are generated on first startup to speedup the next startups...they are always there. Of course they are, the game needs them. What it doesn't need is months of them, most of them created prior to using our current settings and potentially even version of DCS. My intent is to clear them out something like once a week. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
Buckeye Posted February 13, 2018 Posted February 13, 2018 I went into Afterburner/Settings/Monitoring and changed the polling time from 1000 ms (every second) to 60k, i.e. every minute. Linked to the FXO folder deletion, that's resulted in a massive reduction in smearing. Awesome. Thanks dude, will give this a shot next time I fire DCS up -- probably a few days as things are quite busy at the moment. Appreciate the follow up :thumbup: Rig: SimLab P1X Chassis | Tianhang Base PRO + Tianhang F-16 Grip w/ OTTO Buttons | Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + OTTO switches and buttons | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper Tactile: G-Belt | 2x BK LFE + 1x BK Concert | 2x TST-429 | 1x BST-300EX | 2x BST-1 | 6x 40W Exciters | 2x NX3000D | 2x EPQ304 PC/VR: Somnium VR1 Visionary | 4090 | 12700K
dissignator Posted February 13, 2018 Posted February 13, 2018 The biggest Boost for me was, turn on fullscreen and hit alt+enter. My Stutters are gone! :-)
twanmal Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 I've been investigating for a few hours since I had terrible stuttering. - putting low level graphics in 2.5 : didn't help - trying low graphics 1.5 : didn't help - Oculus debug tool asynchronous spacewarp : didn't help, - no internet browser running : help a bit - screen OFF : HELPS & confirmed by oculus debug tool Lost Frame Capture : no big amount of frames lost & the best : - putting screen ON during the test brings stuttering back confirmed by the amount of lost frames drastically high again For me it is only a workaround now but I hope it can helps and I'm interested in investigating why the screen on causes the stutter. H97M-E --- 16GB DDR3--- i4790k --- GTX 1080 --- Oculus Rift
jozeff Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 Thanks for your post, Do you mean actually turning the monitor off? I mean, you graphics card doesn't know if the thing is turned on or off I guess...
twanmal Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 yes, turning off the monitor. As I only checked with oculus debug tool, I'm not able to see why.. H97M-E --- 16GB DDR3--- i4790k --- GTX 1080 --- Oculus Rift
jozeff Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 I've read the story below somewhere.....I'm pretty interested in what happens when you turn off the screen .. On the VGA port, there is 2 pins which you connect each other it will recognized as you connected to a monitor. If you connect VGA jack to monitor, the GPU will know that a monitor is added even it's turned off, only the information of the monitor won't transmitted to GPU, GPU will ignore it. When you using a monitor and turn it off, the GPU will know that you still connect to that monitor but it's turned of and it'll not ignore that monitor, rendering on that monitor will still be there. I've test this on HDMI also.
etherbattx Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 most users do not turn off their monitors when using VR i wonder why on this machine, a connected monitor is so costly performance wise that it introduces stutter. it would be interesting to know.
Naruto Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Tried both setting and prefer Pitools set to 2, SteanVR set to the recommended 32% and DCS to 1.4 PD. I get around 45-55 fps in caucasus free fight depending on plane. Prop planes perform best and F-14 has lowest FPS in the 40 - 45 FPS range in Pimax 5K+. Edited April 30, 2019 by Naruto System specs: Intel i9-9900k OC 5.1Ghz, 32 GB PC3200 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB RAM, Asus Strix 2080 TI OC SLI, Asus Z390 Workstation Pro, 970 EVO 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe and many other SSDs, Alienware 3418DW Widescreen 120 Hz G-Sync Monitor, Corsair H150i PRO RGB CPU Cooler Flightgear: HP Reverb Pro, Samsung Odyssey +, Virpil MongoosT-50CM2 Grip & T-50CM2 Base, TM Warthog, TM TPR Rudder, TM Cougar MFDs, Jetseat, Trackir 5, Sennheiser Game One Headset
jozeff Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 Does pitools also do something for oculus rift? Guess not.... Cheers Jozeff
DeltaMike Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 Marginal framerates always show up first with angular motion, for example watching terrain scroll by to the side or turning the head. Hard to tell what the source is without being able to measure CPU and GPU render times separately. NVIDIA has a tool that nudges you in the right direction https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/fcat-vr-download-and-how-to-guide although it's still not as intuitive or informative as the oculus tray tool. Re: monitors. Normally running a mirror on the monitor doesn't affect FPS very much, although it gradually dawned on me that running a 4K monitor probably isn't a great idea, swapping that out helped a little General rule is, anti-aliasing has a big effect on GPU. Shadows, trees and vis range have big effect on both CPU and GPU. Buildings and units tend to affect CPU primarily. Moderating vis range is a good way to ease up on both CPU and GPU. Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder
twanmal Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 another interesting finding : while in gaming, put your OC Tool to default. They discuss about the why but only assumptions, as always, sadly... I did not test it H97M-E --- 16GB DDR3--- i4790k --- GTX 1080 --- Oculus Rift
Harlikwin Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 Most people that did dint see any improvment. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
etherbattx Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 30% = zero improvement? what a waste at least they got some clicks and made some money
karika Posted May 26, 2019 Posted May 26, 2019 That GPU OC tool trick does for work me. I've been using it for the past 5 days. i9-9900K - 20080TI - Pimax 5K+
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