OldFrankHog Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So if i understand correctly you ca nmanually turn ecm on and off with no delay in a real aircraft aswell ? But could a pilot actually take one of his hands off the controls and punch ecm toggle 323135315123 times while manoeuvering, locking a target, firing a missile, launching flares/chaffs, laughing at you cause you cant do sh1t ? Join us today!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yes, but in a real aircraft you merely turn the *system* on and off. It doesn't transmit just because you turned it on - not an SPJ. A stand-off jammer is a different matter alltogether, which we won't discuss here since it should not be present on the flyables we have. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Scripting it gets pretty close to an exploit tho, you've basically added a new ECM feature with external software. But since it probably can't be proven, it might be better to just let it go so everyone can do it. That's like saying that using a macro to dispense 5 flares/chaff at a time is cheating. It's also like saying that using rudder pedals or joysticks vs. people flying with keyboard is cheating. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I don’t think there is much to debate, how you use ECM is up to the pilot. Same holds true with using flares or chaff, sometimes they help and sometimes they don’t. Flashing your jammer (turning it on and off) is up to the pilot; some people don’t like it and say “you’re cheating”. I would say flying low using ridge lines or hill tops to break locks is cheating too…but I don’t. It is a tactic that you could and would use in real life. If the ECM has a on and off switch (and it does)…then you can use it. Again how you use it is up to the individual pilot. And using a macro that cycles it on and off so fast it doesnt even show the strobe on the radar? Im sorry, but it is not a tactic that can be used IRL. It is an exploit, and everyone know that. Like I said in the 504, you might as well defend LOPE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504Goon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 From my point of view, pilots can use whatever means they can to take out the opposing side, as long as they are withing the server rules. If the server rules allow you to blink ECM, then i can't see a reason why one wouldn't use that to their advantage. So maybe one more good reason to check the briefing if there are any non-ordinary rules listed.. :)I know that it might not be the most "gentleman" way of how to fight the fight, but neither is 4vs1..:) 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Print Screen is an exploit and is cheating. Blinking the ECM is just annoying but I gotta agree that you just have to deal with it. I also don't like being missile spammed but then again that's just how things are. But isnt printscreen a feature of the game? Why shouldnt I be able to macro that, so I can best use the features of the game. Macro'ing the ECM the way people have, wasnt intended to be used that way, and therefor is also an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504Goon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Im sorry, but it is not a tactic that can be used IRL. Neither is maddoging any missile as general.. nor the low level operations of aircraft, as generally aircraft up high are at disadvantage against those pilots who know their stuff. 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 And using a macro that cycles it on and off so fast it doesnt even show the strobe on the radar? It's completely inane, but here's a little something that might help you, at least in the F-15: Narrow the azimuth, and do NOT lock onto him until you're within some 15nm or LESS. Just watch him, you'll get a good hit on radar. Plan your tactics accordingly. Im sorry, but it is not a tactic that can be used IRL. No, in real life it might 'blank out' your radar instead by presenting you with targets everywhere, and you lose lock again (angles + range jamming) but you can and WILL burn through the angles jamming (because it is sidelobe jamming) at a certain range. It is an exploit, and everyone know that. Like I said in the 504, you might as well defend LOPE. No, that's entirely wrong. You can hold the lock on them inside 15nm. Don't even try to compare this to LOPE. Just use it right back at him and expect a maddogged ET in return (which WILL be fixed in BS) Incidentally, you can just maddogg a couple missiles to bracket him, and depart. Use the tools the game gives you to defeat this behaviour; people WILL use it, so you have two choices: Feel 'sporty' which real pilots don't do anyway ... Or beat'em up by countering their tricks. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Mad Dog isnt a real tactic? So why is there a name for it, that came from the military? Why is that big circle still there when I turn my radar off? You are just trying to detract from the fact thats its an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 It's completely inane, but here's a little something that might help you, at least in the F-15: Narrow the azimuth, and do NOT lock onto him until you're within some 15nm or LESS. Just watch him, you'll get a good hit on radar. Plan your tactics accordingly. No, in real life it might 'blank out' your radar instead by presenting you with targets everywhere, and you lose lock again (angles + range jamming) but you can and WILL burn through the angles jamming (because it is sidelobe jamming) at a certain range. No, that's entirely wrong. You can hold the lock on them inside 15nm. Don't even try to compare this to LOPE. Just use it right back at him and expect a maddogged ET in return (which WILL be fixed in BS) Incidentally, you can just maddogg a couple missiles to bracket him, and depart. Use the tools the game gives you to defeat this behaviour; people WILL use it, so you have two choices: Feel 'sporty' which real pilots don't do anyway ... Or beat'em up by countering their tricks. This is not the case. I was well within 10miles and I still couldnt hold lock. I even tried BORE and it wouldnt hold lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504Goon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm speaking about long range maddoging, which is way too effective right now. If it would work IRL like it does in lomac, then why all the money put into TWS systems, if the missiles would find their targets at longer ranges.. and what about the ET?:) 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 changing the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You Mad Dog at visual targets. Not at 20nm, which is what happens in this game - and it happens because of the unrestricted search parameters of the missile. Maddogging at 10, 15, 20 nm is not realistic. This is a 'dogfighting' feature. Not a BVR feature. Now quit calling it an exploit. You can use it too, and they have to deal with the same problems. It's not going away no matter how much you want it to, so there's no point in whining about it. Adjust and defeat it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Why stop calling it an exploit, because it doesnt fit what you believe? It IS an exploit, sorry if you dont like it. I have adjusted, I wont fly online in servers that allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504Goon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So i guess it is just as much an exlpoit as is AIM120/77/ET maddoging, below 10m flying and..humm... anything else? 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 This is not the case. I was well within 10miles and I still couldnt hold lock. I even tried BORE and it wouldnt hold lock. That's an F-15 problem. I've had it happen even with MiG-29's ... usually happens against low altitude, beaming or near-beaming bandits. You can see him, SO MADDOG. He'll barely get a warning even. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 More to the point; it isn't an exploit just because -you- think it is. It is a problem, and it will be addressed eventually. Until then, there are other methods of dealing with it. Why stop calling it an exploit, because it doesnt fit what you believe? It IS an exploit, sorry if you dont like it. I have adjusted, I wont fly online in servers that allow it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So i guess it is just as much an exlpoit as is AIM120/77/ET maddoging, below 10m flying and..humm... anything else? Maddoging ET, yes. Not sure how on the 120 since it CAN IRL. Flying below 10m to avoid missile, sure. humm.... anything else you would like to try and change the topic with, or detract from the fact ITS AN EXPLOIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 More to the point; it isn't an exploit just because -you- think it is. It is a problem, and it will be addressed eventually. Until then, there are other methods of dealing with it. Oh right, its a problem, but not an exploit...... ok then :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 And I thought everyone was trying to make the online community larger. What do you all think a newb is gonna do when he hops in your server and cant lock anything? Quit. And shelf LOMAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Maddoging ET, yes. Not sure how on the 120 since it CAN IRL. Because it has already been proven that even RADAR DIRECTED long-range launch with AMRAAM without datalink (effectively a Maddog) won't hit squat in real life! It is a DOGFIGHTING FEATURE! It's a MY RADAR BROKE BUT I CAN SEE THE SOB RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME feature. Flying below 10m to avoid missile, sure. humm.... anything else you would like to try and change the topic with, or detract from the fact ITS AN EXPLOIT. There's no need to deflect anything; we've tactics to counter it. You choose to basically complain about it instead. Print Screen and LOPE cannot be countered ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Because it has already been proven that even RADAR DIRECTED long-range launch with AMRAAM without datalink (effectively a Maddog) won't hit squat in real life! It is a DOGFIGHTING FEATURE! It's a MY RADAR BROKE BUT I CAN SEE THE SOB RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME feature. There's no need to deflect anything; we've tactics to counter it. You choose to basically complain about it instead. Print Screen and LOPE cannot be countered ;) So, that would be a function of the AMRAAM seeker, not a function of maddoging. It doesnt matter if you can counter it or not, you shouldnt have to. And a bad connection cant be countered either. So what do we do now, make everyone post a bandwidth test to fly on the server? Because otherwise how do you know its the printscreen exploit, or a bad connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504Goon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 And I thought everyone was trying to make the online community larger. What do you all think a newb is gonna do when he hops in your server and cant lock anything? Quit. And shelf LOMAC. Very OT You talking about our servers? I'm sorry, but if you are, i'm a bit suprised. We are still providing the community not with 1, but 2 high speed servers. If that is not an effort to make the community better, then i don't know what is. Are you really trying to say that we are actually DISTRACTING pilots out of the online community? If i were Zorlac, the man generously offering the services, i'd be quite a bit offended. 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Very OT You talking about our servers? I'm sorry, but if you are, i'm a bit suprised. We are still providing the community not with 1, but 2 high speed servers. If that is not an effort to make the community better, then i don't know what is. Are you really trying to say that we are actually DISTRACTING pilots out of the online community? If i were Zorlac, the man generously offering the services, i'd be quite a bit offended. What does the # of servers you have, have to do with it. Why would Zorlac be offended? Plain and simple, I am not a newb. And I dont care to fly online in your server anymore, or any server that allows the exploit. How do you think a newb will handle it? So be offended all you want, no skin off me, im offended you allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504Goon Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Well, one can't satisfy everyone:) See you on the non-ecm blinking servers then, and feel free to come back to our servers whenever you want:) 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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